Neither of us can orgasm

[PawnSacrifice]

Bloke here, could do with some guidance.

My DW has always had a very hard time reaching orgasm, whether with a partner or alone. It typically takes her at least 45 mins of intense oral, and even then it's about 1 time in 10, and never through masturbation, my manual stimulation or vibrators that we've tried.

I've just gone back onto SSRI meds for anxiety and depression (tried life without and just can't cope) and having tried loads of different types over the years, have found one that actually works. The problem is that they (all the ones I've tried, about 8 different types) have effected my ability to orgasm and have generally desensitised everything so nothing feels as nice as it once did.

Like my wife now, I can't orgasm with her or even when alone, no matter the type of stimulation - it just doesn't happen.

We both have decent sex drives and enjoy having sex, however with neither of us able to orgasm, it leaves sex feeling a bit weird, mildly frustrating and very open ended, neither of us knowing how or when to stop, where previously one of us, usually me would orgasm and that would bring things to a natural end.

It's hard to describe, but when we're having sex, there's this kind of, 'how long shall we give this' undercurrent that kills any passion and makes it all a bit processional.

The other night, I literally just had to stop after about 20-30 mins of PIV in various positions, more through boredom - we'd done everything we usually do and that was that.

How do we manage this situation as sex will very quickly become unfulfilling and dull. DW claims that orgasm isn't the be all and end all as she has always struggled in this area and despite our best efforts, is conditioned to just enjoying the closeness etc, but for me it feels weird.

Where do we go from here as sex is important to us.

I went back to the GP who said that sadly I've tried all the drugs available le to me and I'm just one of those people who suffer in this regard, in other words, nothing that can be done.

@Branster

Thanks for your reply. What doesn't help are the amount of women on here who post frequently things like....

"No orgasm, no PIV"
"If she's not orgasming, no wonder she's not keen"
"You're clearly doing it wrong if she's not orgasming"
"Life's too short for crap sex"
"I'd not be happy if my DH orgasmed and I didn't"
"A gentleman always makes sure his partner orgasms first"
"I find the second and third orgasms are the best"
"My DH is hugely talented and always make sure I'm satisfied first"

Etc, etc, etc....

You can understand that after reading those kind of comments and many more that are similar, over and over, it does put a pressure on men to ensure their partner has an orgasm.

Thankfully my DW doesn't complain that orgasms are so elusive, despite my best and extended efforts. My issue is more that sex has become very 'meh' now that neither of us can orgasm.

We kind of just go at it until either she dries up or one of us gets bored.

I worry for the future as it will very much lose its appeal like this, yet sex is very important to me. All my sensations are just numb. I could literally go all night if I had the energy.

That's exactly how I feel, Branster, but the op has said him not having an orgasm is extremely frustrating.

The only way the frustration can be countered is for him to work on having a different way of thinking. No 'risque set ups or props', that is so artificial but tantric sex which seems to have no beginning or end can be very exciting in a wondrous sort of way. I think that would be worth a try if his wife is agreeable.

Honestly, I think the issue here is mostly the ADs and that is a really, really hard one to deal with. It's like you have a choice between being well and being sexual. And sex is vital to relationships.

Orgasm is important to me, but this does not mean I have to get there every time. There is way, way more to sex than that. Ignore the "see to her first" brigade. That just puts pressure on everyone and is not at all helpful. It is also categorically NOT the approach I want any lover of mine to take for what it's worth. I'm not a car to be serviced. I'd far rather have that closeness and no O than no closeness.

Having said all that, I find the best bit of sex to be when you know your partner is feeling it. I find that a huge turn on, and so do most of the men I've been with. And there we have a pretty tricky issue, if neither of you can get there.

Can I ask, OP... can you come by yourself? Can she?

I'm muddling through this with you, I dont have any answers.

I'm sorry, you said in the OP, you cant make yourself come. It is definitely the drugs, but you know that.

At the risk of sounding like one of those fucking annoying people, have you tried a) titrating off ADs really really slowly? b) exercising like a demon to ward off the anxiety? I'm asking this because this is my plan for the new year. I really really want my mojo back. No doubt you do too.

@Whathtewhatnow

No, I can't come by myself - I've tried a few times and I just don't get any pleasurable sensations. Nothing builds, there's no ramp up or anything.

DW can only come by herself if she uses a vibrator, but this is not all the time, maybe 1 in 5 and only if all the stars are aligned, she is at peace with the world and everything is perfect. Because of this, she seldom masturbates as there's little point.

I absolutely agree that the one thing that does it for me is my partner having an orgasm, which sadly with DW is a very rare thing. It's just the thing that does it for me and turns me on.

When neither of us can orgasm, it;'s a very strange process. I'll be on top, (or whatever) and thrusting, and it's just like doing an exercise at the gym. I can feel what's going on, but it's not sexually pleasurable no matter what I do or how fast, slow, deep, shallow etc. Because DW can't orgasm, it's only 'mildly pleasant' for her, too.

I say 'mildly pleasant' as that's how it seems. She's not very vocal, so all I get is the occasional 'Mmmm' and a little heavier breathing than normal, as like me, nothing is building. There's no requests to go faster, slower, deeper, harder, 'ooooh yes - like that' or anything to indicate she's enjoying herself any more than drinking a nice cup of hot chocolate.

So I'll be thrusting in and out doing the best I can without much in the way of pleasure or feedback, and after a few minutes of the same I'll suggest a different position, to which she'll agree. If I didn't suggest this, she'd happily carry on in the original position. So we'll try a different position and it's the same again - no real pleasure or feedback/excitement.

I'll then suggest maybe one or two other positions, try all the techniques I can think of to manually stimulate her, none of which makes a difference and then eventually after maybe 20-30 mins, I start to get a bit bored and just stop, feeling very flat and disappointed.

The odd occasion DW has had an orgasm, it's been after maybe 45 mins of intense oral to the point where my tongue is screaming in pain, I've got cramp in my neck and I've long gone past the point of enjoyment and am just determined not to give up. This might be successful maybe 1 in 4 or 5 times. Normally I give up after about 30 mins as it's just tiresome after so long with such little feedback/results.

We've tried using the vibrator during sex to help, but it only works if she can lie on her back completely still, eyes closed and to concentrate. If I start to thrust, this distracts her and the moment is lost. So I effectively have to just lie there and not interfere, for fear of putting her off. After half an hour I'm bored to tears, frustrated and have lost any mojo or excitement as a non-participating observer. Again, orgasm is very hit and miss like this.

It's like I'm more of a hindrance than a help. You can imagine how that would make you feel if the genders were reversed.

I could overlook this when I was able to orgasm myself, but now I'm unable, it's very, very dull.

That sounds like not fun sex. I'm so sorry. I feel your pain.

PawnSacrifice I can see your point that you’d be tempted to try extra hard based on those type of comments. Likewise, women like me might be tempted to think we have rubbish partners and wonder what we’re missing out on. I’m not saying such comments are lies because some couples are the perfect fit in terms of sexual drive, experience, expectations, physical, emotional and intellectual aspects, energy, age, available time and the perfect environment and all the rest of it.
If you accidentally come across Cosmopolitan’s sex section when googling an article about a skincare product, as I did the other day, you get lost in a world of utter bullshit. I’m not a prude but that stuff was not enjoyable reading to me. Maybe it’s a generation thing.

But I am convinced most women don't put this pressure on themselves as in they absolutely must have at least 1 orgasm every single time they have sex. Lots of women have them but it’s not why they’d necessarily initiate or agree to have sex, it’s not what gets them going and if it doesn’t happen every single time it’s not the end of the relationship. I mean, do all these people have a queue of willing attentive potential partners waiting at the door who can’t wait to have sex with them? Too much of a ‘two strikes and you’re out’ attitude going on for what is a complex and intimate life.
Of course a good partner should want his wife to have a very enjoyable experience and should pick up on all the signals but it’s a two way street. Both partners would, ideally, want to fully satisfy each other.
Anyway, there’s no point to feel any pressure based on these types of comments.

Judging by your posts, you and DW have been together a long time and are comfortable discussing XX and orgasms. Which is half the battle won.

You are currently taking this medication which is not doing any good for your personal sexual satisfaction. It must be awfully difficult for you and I’m sorry I can’t suggest anything. Are there any medical related forums for men anywhere you can at least try to find out how others cope with this problem? Until this is sorted, it looks to me that you have to accept that this is going to remain unchanged. Sorry if sounds harsh.

However, you care for DW and would try anything to make sure she has a good time and, ideally, an orgasm. This gives you satisfaction at a different level and it is very important to you. Maybe tackle this problem until you solve the other. Whathewhatnow is right, it can feel too mechanical to have someone working on you to attain this elusive feeling. As DW is a willing partner in your sex activities and talks about sex with you, clearly she must enjoy it otherwise she’d simply refuse to start with. So you shouldn’t wonder if she like sex with you or not. If she didn’t, she wouldn’t have it. I assume you’re not forcing her or pleading with her, it’s a joint decision. I’m baffled about her lack of expression but everybody is different I guess. I would have thought that, involuntarily, she’d let out cues to what works and what doesn’t but maybe that’s the issue, she doesn’t fully relax to keep nature and instinct take over. But if she enjoys the sex as it is then maybe it’s not an issue for her. You have to work with what you’ve got, she needs to help herself to some extent really as there’s only so much you can do without being able to ‘read’ her sensations. If you accept that there isn’t much in it physically for you at present, try and make it all about her. But without any pressure. Keep your clothes on, if she wants you to take them off later, you’ll know. If she doesn’t that fine, it’s not about you for this exercise. Touch her differently, there’s a lot more to the female body than the obvious parts and every women would enjoy more attention to certain areas only she likes. It could be her back, her legs, her neck whatever, she might know, you might discover. Be gentle, treat her like a cat (I don’t mean it in a disrespectful way to women but it’s an analogy in the sense that cats like a gentle touch and they don’t like to be trapped, they let you know what they want and when they want you to stop). Take your time to discover her, let her lie whichever way she wants on her back, front, side as it would feel different. Don’t aim to get her to orgasms, it’s an excercise for both of you to discover what she likes. You can then move to her clitoris but I can’t give you instructions as, again, everyone is different, just try different strokes, different pressure until you think you get some involuntary response. If it really works for her, I would think she might want PIV, use your fingers and see how it goes. Just spend time on her without any pressure, basic, simple stuff. If she relaxes enough, she might have a bit more initiative or might orgasms. I mean you’ve put enough time and effort into this already ( it does sound like hard work if you don’t get anywhere and you don’t even know if she gets anywhere near) so you might as well try to take a step back in a way and enjoy exploring how she feels at a more basic level. Any woman would like this approach. To feel like it’s all about her from time to time but without any pressure, she feels wanted and the partner loves to explore her body. Who wouldn’t? Obviously it has to be at times when she is in the right frame of mind (not tired etc). Ask her if a small drink might help her relax, she’s an adult and it might remove inhibitions if she has any. Maybe she’s not that bothered about having an orgasm but feels she should because you have tried to help her so much (which is good of you but it might be a bit too much). Maybe if she can rediscover how her body responds to you touching her might help her let herself go a little bit and be more spontaneous or more involved.

I didn’t mean to write that much- sorry

I couldn't orgasm on anti depressants. And, for a pp who suggested it, you can't exercise away depression or anxiety.

Op - my partner doesn't always orgasm, at the start he rarely did (age and nerves I think). But to prevent the whole "so, when do I stop" he seems to have a sort of routine which is based around the intensity of the thrusting. So, even though for him there isn't the sexual build up, he acts like there is. So starting with slow rythmic and then moving through long and deep, probably two positions, and moving to a fast paced crescendo. It doesn't matter if neither of us orgasms (I usually do at some point but not necessarily and not always at the build up point) but he stops after that as if we have, with a deep thrust.

It sounds tedious written down, but it isn't and it's not always the same.

Feel very sad for both of you. I have a huge sexual appetite. I also have pretty severe anxiety and depression and one of reasons I don’t take AD as sex is a o important to me.
I keep getting embroiled in unhealthy relationships and have just ended another one as it was not good for me. I’m actually now considering taking the ADs to lust my mood and for the fact it might make me less sexually voracious and less likely to be vulnerable again to another man.
How crazy is that?!
Really hope you can both get through this, I’ve known so many couples for whom medication becomes a sexual problem.

Seems it's got to the stage where it is more psychological than physical.

I would advise going tantric. Start off at the basics and work up to more intensity.

Consider seeing a teacher of tantric methods. Getting into the right mind set through meditation might improve the atmosphere. IYSWIM

I'm off to google tantric in the hope it is an answer for me as well as OP. I think we shouldnt lose sight of the fact here that SSRIs are exceptionally powerful sexual pleasure killers. Imagine trying to have sex with something like an industrial rubber glove on your sensitive bits... it's like that. I can come on my own but I've known myself for 30 years... ;) am truly scared about meeting a new partner...

In tantra it is possible to orgasm without being touched.

Thanks for the responses.

We tried tantric sex a while ago and both agreed it did nothing for us. All the heightened sensations that were meant to occur just didn't. We both found it pretty boring and not sexually arousing. I lost my erection most of the time and just found it dull. DW didn't report any arousal at all.

@Branster Thanks for your input and suggestions. I've done all you describe and more on many occasions, having researched and read up on this stuff for years. There's not an an inch of her body that at some point I have not explored, caressed, gentle massaged, kissed, stroked etc. Doesn't make any difference.

Ultimately, hr clitoris needs an enormous amount of intense, none stop stimulation for an absolute minimum of 30 minutes without distraction or interruption. If we stop and try something else, the process has to start all over again. I read somewhere that perhaps I should get her close using 45 mins of oral then do PIV and finish off using my fingers, however this assumes the level of orgasmic arousal stays at the 'nearly there' level. In our case, it doesn't and the process has to start again, not that in 20 years I've ever been able to give her an orgasm during any kind of PIV - the sensations are distraction you see....

It's as if her orgasm sensitivity is turned down to 0.1 on the dial. Where mine is currently set to zero.

We tried again the other night and I just didn't enjoy it at all. Just frustrating without any pleasure. I'd happily put up with my own reduced pleasure if I could at least be part of some passionate excitement on DW's part, but as this is at such a low level, it's just so dull.

It's had to describe how dispiriting it is to be making love and to reach around to massage her clit and get no reaction, or to caress her breast or suck her nipple and get no reaction. I'll ask her does that feel nice and she'll say yes, but only if I ask her.

I just feel crap, very frustrated and deeply unfulfilled.

`noego Mon 23-Dec-19 08:54:10
Seems it's got to the stage where it is more psychological than physical.

I would advise going tantric.
...
Just what I thought, noego. It does require a shift in thinking but where there's a will(so) there's a way - no pun intended.

It looks like you’ve left no leaf unturned here. I was hoping maybe if somehow you can get your DW to be more responsive at least you’d derive enough pleasure from that so at least the problem is half solved.
I really can’t think what else you can possibly try. If she’s a willing partner, then she must get something out of having sex otherwise she wouldn’t a) do it and b) be prepared to go along with some of your suggestions. Maybe she just goes along for the ride because she likes the attention she gets from you and she must get some feelings from your touches and that’s absolutely fine as long as you accept that she is happy with the way she feels, albeit limited compared to the expectations. By the sounds of it, she can’t possibly get a more willing and caring partner so really, if not having an orgasm actually bothers her (which it might not) then it’s up to her to find a way to it on her own. As it stands, based on her behaviour, in your shoes, I’d be satisfied that that’s as good as is going to get. So basically you are flagging a dead horse until she does something about it herself, if indeed she views this as a problem. I have no idea why is is so unresponsive other than she isn’t living the moment, she can’t let herself enjoy the experience fully.
It’s nice that you try to encourage her for guidance but, on the flip side, if you ask too much ‘do you like this?’ it might feel like too much.
I can only talk from my personal experience and logic. If you get going and enjoy yourself and want the partner to also have a good time, involuntarily there will be flea signs that x works and y isn’t going anywhere but would happily try z, without having an actual conversation about it, it kind of flows once you’re in the zone. Especially when it’s a long term intimate partnership. Although I don’t expect, chase or feel disappointed for nor not getting an orgasm every time I have sex, it takes me minutes to get it on my own so at least I know it’s very achievable. And all the other stuff should ideally be highly enjoyable for both partners at least most of the time otherwise why bother (unless there’s a coercive relationship but that’s not the case here).
So maybe if DW wants to explore herself a bit more on her own without any pressure, she might get a bit closer to sorting herself out and hopefully be able to support you replicate that sensation for her.
Of course everybody is different, but most people have the same involuntary reactions: smile when meeting someone they know/like, swear when it’s hot, pounding heart when scared etc. Maybe DW is adept at internalising her reactions and emotions for some reason (upbringing, cultural?) because she finds herself acting too rationally whilst having sex.
It’s all quite puzzling.
I can’t see how she will ever change her behaviour in bed as it sounds like you’ve been together for a long time and that’s the way she is (which is not good or bad but it’s eroding your confidence and energy).
So we haven’t got anywhere really after this lengthy exchange of posts.

I really feel for you. You sound like a very attentive lover and it does sound like you've basically tried everything. Is your wife on hormonal contraception as this made a huge difference to my sex drive. Was she brought up to believe sex is dirty or wrong and cant let herself go?

FWIW (and please believe that I am saying this to make you feel better NOT worse) I am sure many women would be coming like mad with the things you have described that you are doing. Please dont be too hard on yourself

I second bingandflp second paragraph - spot on.
Good point about contraceptives. I had that with a particular brand but I found it only affected the way I felt in not thinking to initiate any sexual activity but once started everything else was as usual so desire did take over but I didn’t have that frisky feeling coming over me out of context.

I very much doubt DW would find a better partner, the patience, dedication, selflessness and care you are showing her are top notch. So there’s no other man out there that could make her feel any better. Keep doing what you’re doing but don’t expect miracles- for all we know she may well be having a good time as it is but is incapable of expressing it.

No contraception issues as I had the snip years ago.

Tried again last night but no joy. Nothing I did worked, I got very little feedback from everything I tried and just lost interest in the end.

I wasn't getting any pleasure feelings myself from the sex so after about 20 mins had to just gave up and let DW finish off with her vibrator whilst I lay there like a spare part feeling useless and unfulfilled. She at least had an orgasm, eventually, not that I was anything to do with it.

This can't be right.

Can you orgasm when you beat one out?

Get rid of the vibrator and abstain for a month or two. See what happens, cos what you're doing now certainly isn't working.

@noego

That's really unpleasant and you obviously haven't read the thread.

The first orgasm I ever had was when my boyfriend was sat on the edge of the bath and I straddled him with my legs facing into the bath. So on all accounts this seems to be a good position.

I find being on top and leaning slight forwards always does the trick on a conventional bed, sofa, back of the car etc. Not so much the latter these days.

@VanGoghsDog

I have read the thread and contributed. This couple have tried everything except abstinence for a month and then going trying again at a later date.

@fooookinghell

No I can't.

@TantricTwist

No amount of riding, grinding or similar makes any difference, facing me, facing away, laying back on my with me reaching around etc. I just don't think her clitoris is sensitive enough. The fact that it can take 45 mins of nonstop, high intensity oral to maybe have an orgasm supports this.

@noego

Longest abstinence was nearly 6 months, and a couple of 3 month gaps. No difference, just less sex and a drifting relationship.