Sexless Marriage.

[WorkingDaddy]

Hi, I just wanted to see wether the MN community could offer some advice. I've been married almost 10 years now, over the last few years our relationship has become more and more sexless.

We have 2 kids under 10, and I know my wife is always really tired, but I feel we have lost some really important intimacy. I have always been more sex driven than she is, but recently it really has become quite apparent sex is the last thing on her mind.

I don't think I can ever recall an occasion where she actually initiated sex, it's always me that tries, and I have been turned away on more occasions than I care to mention.

I am genuinely concerned as I love her so much and I still really fancy her, so really want to have sex. But without it, I don't know what to do.

I know there will be some people who say 'just get on with it' but I want to have sex in my life, i think it's a really important and enjoyable part of a relationship.

I have brought it up before that we don't do it, it was a hard conversation to bring up, but it was pretty much ignored as an issue and we moved on very quickly, with the quote 'this is just me.'

I've mentioned about spicing things up, by mentioning some things i like, like her wearing suspenders, but all i get back is 'well they're not practical!' I agree, they're not, but that's not the point of them. I'd happily do things she likes, but she has never shared a fantasy with me or any preference of what she would like.

I was just wondering if anyone has found themselves in this situation and found a solution to it. It's really beginning to play on my mind.

@WorkingDaddy I'm really sorry you're feeling like this. I just wondered if you can be 100% certain that she's not bothered at all by the situation. Another few questions for you: have you started the therapy yet, is it together or do you also have sessions booked in alone, and - finally - is she completely aware of how big a deal this is to you and that, put simply, your marriage will end in the future if something doesn't change?

As others have, I'd like to share my experience from the DW's perspective in case it offers any value to you. In my case, I'm not on any medications. I'm not repulsed by my husband. But we do only have sex maybe once every 6-8 weeks at best, versus every day or two when we first got together. This is entirely my doing.

For us, it's been a combination of factors. Children and the fact I'm just a naturally high stress and anxiety person has played a big role. When DH and I first got together I was in a much more menial job, we had a smaller house that took less effort to keep looking like a Showhome and I probably just had lower standards which have come over time. I now find it very very difficult to switch my head off completely and just relax, so even when my body has that tingly sort of horny feeling, my mind is often still racing about a million different things that my DH probably things are trivial and not worth worrying about. I've tried lots of times to have sex when my heads full of these thoughts but it isn't really enjoyable, I'm way too distracted and I'm quite sure to DH it feels like I'm just lying back and thinking of England because I'm literally not in the room. My only escapes to refocus are things like walking or spending time alone with a book, which is what your comment about your DH with walking the dog made me think of.

Add to this, as I've got older, my hormones have just gone a bit mad. I'm not menopausal. There's nothing irregular about my cycles and I doubt a GP would be interested. But weird things are happening to my body these days I just don't understand. I'm achier and tired more often, feel more haggard and less confident in my looks even though I know I'm still attractive and take good care of myself. Where once I'd have sex and really enjoy it, it now takes 3 or 4 orgasms before I'm actually satisfied - I never used to be able to achieve multiples! - and DH is seldom able to keep going that long.

But the worst thing is emotional connection. And it's largely my fault. I am absolutely locked in myself that I can't communicate what I want, how I want it, my fantasies. Partially because over the years I've realised mine just aren't the same as DHs and the language we speak isn't the same. He thinks he's more vocal than me and communicative sexually and outwardly he is, but he isn't saying the things that work for me and I don't know the way to tell him otherwise without seeiming negative or disinterested. So I've largely given up trying. He also doesn't seem to get the concept that it takes 15-20 mins minimum of just touching with NO genital / intimate touching at all, just talking romantically or a bit dirty to me to heat things up before initiating if it's going to work. Move too fast and I turn off quicker than a lightbulb.

All this aside, I 100% still love him. I'm still attracted to him. And the fact I realise how i am risks losing him is very upsetting. I think about the lack of sex in our relationship very very often and it adds to my worry which exacerbates the problem!

Just wondering if any of this at all is true for your DW before you give up....

I'm going through something similar with my partner of 2 and half years. I'm female and he's male and both in our 30s.

We were always morning people when it came to sex. We stayed overnight in a hotel in April and when we woke there was some touchy feelings but when it came to any sex, there was none because he used his hand and wanted himself off. It hit me then that the last time we had sex was in January. Anytime there's any hint of sexy busy between us, he chooses his hand over me. Other times life gets in the way for any sexy times so I can't place all the blame at his feet. Having said that, I don't refuse him either. The sex is just not happening any more between us.

A week after our hotel stay, we went away together again. There was nothing there stopping us from sex but it happened again. No sex and again he choose his hand over me. I found it crushing. I'm currently on my period and he's due to go away later this week out abroad to visit some family for a little over a week. So, it looks like the majority of May will be off the cards too for us. I'm beginning to zone out of our relationship. Its hard because he's loving and attentive outside of the bedroom but there's no sex whatsoever happening and I hate it.

When you say you really tried, what do you mean?

Do you mean you tried to initiate sex she didn’t want, perhaps with an added element of guilt, sulking, grabbing at her? Or do you mean you tried to initiate an open conversation about what’s happening in your relationship and how you could work on improving things?

Do you know why she’s avoiding sex? Have you made her feel safe enough to be open with you without fearing your reaction?

Take it from someone who knows - when your libido is gone (and I don’t mean low, I mean completely gone), talking about sex is excruciating. My husband making jokes or innuendos made me feel panicked. I would freeze if he touched me. He would sometimes get into terrible moods which I completely understood and completely excused, but it wasn’t fun to live with for me either. I tried everything I could think of to fix it but I didn’t even know why it had gone, let alone how to get it back.

Here’s an analogy which might help you understand how it feels, assuming you’re straight and not bisexual.

Imagine there’s a man in your house you care about deeply, maybe even love after sharing a house and so much of your time for years. He wants you to have sex with him. You don’t want to because you have no sexual interest in men.

He says that you’ll get into it if you just do it. You make excuses because it’s awkward and hard to be honest and you don’t want to make anyone feel rejected. So you laugh off the comments while feeling really uncomfortable. But he’s sexually frustrated and that matters more to him than how you feel. He suggests you dress up in what he likes saying it will get you in the mood. He keeps trying to initiate sex that you don’t want. He gropes you at any opportunity - knowing he’s using your body to get aroused when you don’t want it makes you feel sick and used. Whenever you say no, you know he’s going to sulk about it. Sometimes you may “give in” and just have sex with him even though you have literally zero sexual interest in men at all and you can’t possibly enjoy it. Sometimes it’s easier to put yourself through this than to deal with the sulking and coercion, even though it traumatises you.

Now obviously it’s not a perfect analogy because clearly you and your wife have had a sexual relationship in the past. But this is the closest way I can explain it.

I don’t know your wife and I don’t know whether this is the case for her. I do know that female hormones are extremely complicated, especially after having children, and the impact of even a slight imbalance on libido can be absolutely enormous. Is she on hormonal contraception? That can cause the same issues too, as can other medications.

If I’m right, and you want to try and salvage the marriage, you need to approach this carefully and openly without reprisals. You need to know what the problem is and see if there’s anything you can do to address it. If she believes it’s a physical thing, support her to get some help with this (but sadly you shouldn’t hold tie your breath unless it’s something very straight forward and easily picked up on blood tests).

As for this... The reality is that it’s not going to change for the better, despite your best efforts.

Frankly this is bollocks. From about 18 months ago to 10 days ago I had 0% sex drive. Since 9 days ago, I’ve had 100% sex drive and we’ve had lots of sex twice a day since then. What did I change or what did he change to achieve this? Absolutely nothing. It seems it was kickstarted by ovulation and it’s hanging around for now.

The myths that are being perpetrated here aren’t helpful to you or your wife. Absolutely sex drive can come and go. Absolutely it can get better, if you handle it carefully and communicate.

I came here looking for answers to my own problems. My “DW” shows me no affection and we have not done anything sexual for over one year now. When I have tried to initiate anything recently I get short shrift. In the past I have always waited for her to make a move or give a green light because rejection is very hurtful. I am sure that intimacy and affection is very low on DWs priority list and my be on many DWs also.

I think though it will inevitably destroy a marriage. Many have the opinion “put up and shut up” but it’s more than just a desire. I can “please myself” but it does nothing for our relationship. Those who have and want sexual intimacy on a weekly or daily frequency are very fortunate indeed. We have never had this frequency even in the early stages of our relationship but no one can think that a one year hiatus is healthy? If I try to broach the subject, which I don’t often or even in a direct way I am totally ignored or shot down.

From what I can see and feel withholding intimacy will only lead to an end to a marriage for one reason or another.

I have seen many of my friends marriages end in divorce. One said when asked why? “because life is too short to be unhappy” and that really is what’s at stake.

The post by BWRose above seems to be describing the what its like when the man has a very low libido and develops an aversion to sex with their partner, as EmptyOrchestra describes from the female perspective.

Yes he's still wanking though. But low libido doesn't mean zero libido. There's still some desire for an orgasm. But the energy and drive for actual sex isn't there. Masturbation, perhaps enhanced by porn, takes a lot less energy and drive.

I've seen the sentiment here that "if he's wanking, it must mean he's perfectly capable of sex, he's just choosing not too". This is oversimplistic though. Perhaps its the difference between the male and female perspective? When a man has a very low libido, he might still feel like masturbation, even if he's not up for actual sex.

Thanks for your reply Scott72.

I'm not too sure if low libido from my man is very fitting. Waking up with my man spooning me is enough to get me all tingly down below. Some touches on the nipples and that's it, I'm good to go - very little foreplay needed. Sex between us when it happened was him on his back and me on top doing all the work. I can't imagine that would require too much effort and energy in comparison to a wank.

Yes he's still wanking though. But low libido doesn't mean zero libido. There's still some desire for an orgasm. But the energy and drive for actual sex isn't there. Masturbation, perhaps enhanced by porn, takes a lot less energy and drive

This is what I was trying to explain above - someone can have low libido (where they may still masturbate) or no libido at all. They are two different things. It’s important to understand what you’re dealing with, but it’s extremely difficult to say “actually the thought of sex or even masturbation make me feel physically sick”. This can happen to a person who had a normal sex drive previously, and they can go on to have a normal sex drive again within the same relationship because the problem isn’t the relationship, it’s a complete loss of libido and in most cases it seems to be hormonal or due to illness, medication etc.

If someone still has a libido and wants to masturbate but doesn’t want to have sex with their partner, that’s a very different issue and more difficult to overcome because it implies a lack of interest in your partner rather than a lack of interest generally.

How the couple handle a complete loss of libido is the biggest factor in whether the relationship can survive.

At one point we went more than five years with no physical relationship at all. A relationship can survive it, but it’s bloody difficult.

Female perspective here ! I've given up after a decade of being the one conscious of how often we "should" be doing it and therefore always initiating. Tested it a while back to see what would happen if I didn't initiate and we didn't have sex for coming on a year. He is attractive and so am I. But I've given up and no longer even want sex with him because it's so tied up now in weirdness !! I'm at the point of asking outright if he's not bothered about sex or just not bothered about sex with me. I would be genuinely shocked if he had had an affair and I don't even know when or if he wanks ! He doesn't even touch me in any way anymore. It's really sad and soul destroying actually /..
I do want sex but not awkward sex with him anymore

You really need to communicate with him. I can’t imagine getting to this point where you haven’t had sex for so long and you don’t know what the problem is. As I said, we went much much longer without sex before my sex drive came back but we had very regular discussions about why this was so even though it was extremely soul destroying for him (and for me too in a different way) we managed to get through it.

I provided as much reassurance as I could that it wasn’t a sign of a problem with us and was entirely a problem with my own body / brain. Since doctors weren’t any use in figuring it out I had to try and figure it out myself and DH could see that I was doing everything I could think of (counselling, paying for blood tests, research, support groups online for women who’ve been on the meds that caused the issue, even trying to force myself to touch myself which was a complete disaster). I still don’t fully understand it, beyond the fact it’s clearly hormonal so I’ve done what I can to improve things, including suffering through severe pain because I refuse to take hormones of any kind now. He knows that I want to fix this for myself as much as for him, and I knew he would never force or coerce me to do things I’d struggle with.

So much of the problems listed here seem to be down to a lack of communication and understanding on both sides - and in some cases, a complete lack of respect or care about what their partner is going through, again on both sides. I’ve been horrified by the accounts of some men here whose wives have clearly completely lost their sex drive, it hasn’t just reduced, it’s gone (and having been there I know how traumatic sexual contact can be in that scenario), and then have the audacity to complain that the sex their wives are forcing themselves to have for their husband’s benefit isn’t good enough.

Even the fact that they can go through with sex that their spouse clearly doesn’t want is alarming. Since my sex drive came back it has been very full on but I can’t imagine anything worse than having sex with my husband that he’s hating just because I want it. That’s horrifying - these are the people we are supposed to love.

I do wonder what sort of empathy these men would expect from their wives if they had to have their testicles removed and this eradicated their sex drive. So many women have to deal with severely affected libido just as a result of the hormonal changes we experience throughout our lives, especially if we have children. It’s concerning how many men have no appreciation for this, based on the posts here at least. It’s all about them.

5377key I’m sure it is soul destroying and especially so because you don’t know what the problem is - whether he doesn’t want sex / doesn’t masturbate at all, or whether he just doesn’t want it with you. That would crush anyone’s self esteem. I really think you need to talk about it - if his sex drive has gone away where he had one before, he should be wanting to try and get to the bottom of this, and be reassuring you that you are not the problem. He should be seeing a doctor, arranging tests, looking for things he can do to try and improve it.

If he just doesn’t want you specifically, he needs to be honest about that so you can find someone who does want you which is the least you deserve.

It shouldn’t be awkward - you’re married!

There's only so much 'shutting down' that can take place before the resentment kicks on good and proper.

In my case I was in a dead bedroom situation for 8 years. ExH variously blamed me for letting myself go and then told me he resented me.

Nail in coffin right there. He was a shit husband in lots of ways though, which is maybe where the difference lies. He couldn't have been less bothered about me if he tried. There was no coming back from that.

Had I my time again, I would have had a discreet FWB. I'm still not confident enough to have sex and be sexual, it absolutely breaks my heart.

Exactly the same experience here OP, I’m afraid.

Whilst there wasn’t masses of sex before marriage, there was never any expression of dislike or any impression that she didn’t consider it a normal, important and on-going part of a relationship.

Then we got married and had two kids. Up went the drawbridge. “What do we need to have sex for now we’ve got two kids?... Nobody else does it… I’m just not touchy-feely… Stockings make my legs hot…” etc. And when all that failed to stop me trying to maintain some kind of intimacy, out came all the personal put-downs and insults about me and my technique.

She has never once asked me for sex, initiated any, questioned why I no longer bother to ask her, nor seemed in any way to care that the relationship is dead. There is no sexual intercourse, no other sex (BJ, oral for her, petting, etc.) and for a long while now, no kissing, hugging, snuggling, etc. at all.

Yet we don’t shout at each other or argue. She carries-on merrily day to day, perfectly content with the flat-mate / security guard situation, just wilfully or negligently ignoring my many pleas for us to reconnect. I know she would carry-on like that for ever, not caring one jot for my unhappiness.

And to be clear, there are no real life worries, medical conditions, past abuse, etc. and if anything, I’m the one more bothered about ‘consent’ issues than her, insisting that the only ‘yes’ is “ooh, yes, let’s!...” and NOT “I suppose so”, “we can if you want to…”, etc. . I have tried EVERYTHING over the years to engage in an open and two-way discussion, including plenty of reminding her I love her, laying my feelings bare and giving her unlimited space to vent her feelings, including telling me plain if there’s anything I’m doing wrong / have done wrong / could improve to help the situation for her.

I think leaving is the only option. I have decided to wait until the kids are adults and the mortgage paid / her back to work. I am counting the years and make plans daily in my head for my solitary life. I resent the abandonment more than anything else and despite some of the crap you might read on these forums, I am not waiting to move-on to another relationship / lover / warm bed. I will leave her because she no longer gives a s* about my happiness and I would rather live-out my days alone than let her trap me in a loveless vice until death us do part.

I could go on, but it’s your post and I’m sure you don’t want chapter and verse on me. Just to say that you have some difficult decisions ahead.

I'm a woman in the same situation as you.

My DH he's a great father and we do cuddle. But I don't really know how it has got to this - well I do. I've always been more dominant and in reality he's a submissive. Not in real life but in the bedroom. In real life he's a control freak and it pisses me off. So IRL we have this bizarre dynamic where he argues with me and is controlling but then it comes to sex and he needs me to dominate - to take control. I'm not sure any of it turns me on any more.

This evening being the first time in months we've had sex and it's because I was literally desperate I feel like my body was crying out for love. It was disappointing and he came because I took control and told him too if that makes sense. He always does the same things to make me come - I have to take my mind elsewhere but now I can't so I never come. I feel like I want someone to love me and care for me and take the initiative.

Honestly I'm in the prime of my life - huge personality and I'm so attractive I see and notice men who want me. I've never cheated and never will. I just feel empty.

No sex here either. Its a hard nut to crack (no pun intended!) when its been going on for a long time.

It’s a really depressing thread this, as it reminds me exactly of my situation and the resentment I felt.

These days, those feelings have long gone.

I live with a housemate that I love , we have what appears to others to be the perfect marriage, we have awkward sex occasionally, always the same, she seems to not really want or need sex.

So I, with a very clear conscience, meet with a friend every couple of weeks for lunch, chat, laughter....and great sex, passionate fucking....in showers, against walls, you name it.

And we all plod on happily.

Regular sex, wanting and being wanted, is important to our well being.

@Christian77 ditto here but from a wife's perspective - was always under the impression that men were the ones pestering for sex all the time but appears I found one of the rare few who could actually care less about it !
Flat mates is right as is the external impression of an amazing relationship- to be fair when analyzing friends marriages we probably get along the best - for a long time I convinced myself that was more important than a physical relationship but now I know it isn't . Having both would be the holy grail - I do think that's probably pretty rare though. I'm trying to decide what matters more
Also started to wonder if I should suggest an open relationship which seems only fair - I don't want to divorce I love our life but need sex and don't want an affair !!
And I totally get the awkward sex thing which also seems bizarre in a marriage doesn't it ?!!

I also have a dead bedroom marriage. Looking back I always initiated and after a while, having sex with DH became almost weird and awkward because it would have been so long since we last had it and, now, I realise, that he just didn't want it. We discussed our lack of sex life in an embarrassed manner a few times with subsequent duty sex which basically killed me and must have been the last thing he wanted so this led to me stopping asking. We had three years of no sex, about two years into this I suggested an open marriage which he was surprised at. Once we arrived at three years no sex, I repeated my request for an open marriage and he agreed. I was amazed and surprised.

I have since met a man who I have been meeting regularly and I guess we are in a parallel relationship. Emotionally, it is much more than I was initially looking for. I have always been someone who could separate sex and love but I suppose it depends who you connect with. DH warned but this could happen but I pooh poohed it; maybe he knows me better than I know myself.

I too am in a sexless marriage! Looking back it was always me who initiated but after 14 years together it slowly died out with kids coming along as it does in every marriage. It became so routine and boring that I stopped initiating as it was more wham bam thank you mam on his part as I would get nothing! He became selfish and lazy in bed so I didn't even want to.
Now we manage a once a year fumble and that again is because I initiate it as I can't bare going more than 12 months. He's uses tiredness and kids as his excuse. I even booked for us to go away for a night in a hotel to try and reconnect and he just got into bed that night kissed me on the cheek and said good night!!!!
I master bate a lot and often wondered has he zero sex drive. I have discussed with him and asked was he still attracted to me and he says yes... who knows tho.
We talk about how we should be having sex more and just like everything it never happens!!
I find I fantasize about ex boyfriends or strangers both while I am asleep and awake.
I want an open relationship but know he would never agree to it. Also not even sure how I would go about it anyways lol
But my god!!! I am only 40 and cannot settle for this for rest of my life 🙈

Have made the effort again to night and got the brush off it’s every time now. If she doesn’t want me any more wish she would just tell me 😢

I completely lost my libido when I fell out of love with my exp. He was a lazy shit who I had to wet nurse through life and never lifted a finger to help me with the kids or house and was a sexist pig too. I was knackered from work too and over weight and depressed and so.sex dwindled to about 4 times a year.
I fell in love with someone I worked with, kicked out the ex and a year later my libido is back..3 or 4 times a week...with the fella I fell in love with..sex is amazing
I think libido for women is quite often linked to how they feel in a relationship and how valued they are..depression and medication also affects things and it can take drastic action to get it back.

@ghostmouse good for you I sometimes wish I had the courage to leave but still a huge part of me has decided to see it through as a side from sex we have a very strong relationship.

It’s soul destroying even trying after a while, then comes the point when you’re embarrassed to even make an attempt. It’s that bad. Find someone in the same boat and the sparks will fly. Great sex after years of the mind-numbing tokenism is an incredible, addictive thing. Being so turned on that foreplay is not needed is awesome.

Interestingly, I am in the same position but it's not the lack of sex I have an issue with per se, it's the lack of passion and spark. I love him but when we do have sex it does nothing for me any longer, because it just feels like he is going through the motions, because i want him too. As for finding a FWB, never thought I would consider it, but i have started to become more aware of other men and Its such a temptation. Bizarrely I am devastated by that realisation as well, maybe because I think it would be our death knell...😢

Addressing the original question here, there are a few possibilities: she has zero interest in sex because of the way she is so it’s not something you can change, she is taking medication which affects her desire for sex (even some contraceptives affect some women in this way), she doesn’t feel attractive (do you ever compliment her appearance or tell her out of the blue how much you fancy her), she doesn’t find you attractive anymore (not necessarily on a physical level but even things like being grumpy, angry, moody etc would turn a woman off), the pressure to just have sex it’s too much for her (do you only show affection when you clearly want sex or are you affectionate and kind all the time, and I think maybe telling her your fantasies when not even basic sex is taking place might make her think you don’t like her that much the way she is already).
I’m sure there might be other reasons but you can’t expect her to have sex if something is stopping her.
If you still love her and care about her and want to stay with her but your efforts haven’t helped so far, try and take a step back and concentrate on being really, really nice, supportive and encouraging to her without hinting that you want sex now. Don’t forget to look after yourself in the meantime (I guess you already go to the gym a lot just to channel the excess energy) and hopefully she'll ease Back into wanting to be intimate with you. If you’re not going to leave her and you want her to be happy and relaxed, you might as well continue to try and make her feel appreciated.
By the way you write about her, I don’t think an affair would do you good as you’ll feel very bad about it.
If you do decide to leave, how likely are you to find a regular sex partner or will you be in a situation of no sex and all alone for a few months or years whereas now there’s no sex but you live with someone you care about and like looking after her.
Yes sex is very important in a loving relationship and very hurtful when the partner doesn’t respond. I‘ve been there.

I feel awful reading your post, OP, because for years I was that wife. I was mad for it before kids but afterwards I just didn’t want to do it. I’d think “I don’t want to have a thing jammed hard into me repeatedly. I don’t mind doing his ironing and stuff but why must I submit to that!”

The first reason was him being there for the births of my kids. I will advise my daughters that if he must be there he must stay at her head. I lost all confidence in myself as a sexy woman and saw my vagina as a torn, shit-smeared mess therefore because I know he saw it like that.

The second reason was that as it was him with the higher sex drive it was always him initiating so I felt besieged. And I didn’t feel it was a safe space to just lie together and cuddle because it would be leading him in so it became frigid.

In the end he slept with a prostitute on a business trip and we ultimately split up.

Now I’m in a marriage where it’s the other way around. For about a decade we were quite happily celibate for months and even the odd year at a time but a couple of years ago suddenly my sex drive increased (prob a menopause symptom) and now the boot is v much on the other foot!!

I have dealt with it by getting him a bit drunk which usually works and also by telling him how I felt. Weirdly I was just discovering on the menopause thread that some women fear they will have affairs as they are so desperate. What I was doing was looking at all men and assessing “I wonder whether he would be prepared to shag me?” While knowing I never would because I adore my husband.

So I had to tell him a few times how I felt and he always said he would try harder and lately we have done some of sexual activity about once a week though it’s almost always mutual masturbation. Which funnily enough I think I would have been ok with in my previous marriage.

Not much direct help to you I’m afraid but I thought maybe it might comfort you to hear of my experiences