He doesn't 'go down'

[stambirk]

Newish partner. We've been having sex together exclusively for about 6 months now. He was previously married and never performed oral sex because she point blank refused to let him. Apparently her go to excuse was 'I have heavy discharge'.
Anyway, she also never have him oral sex, claiming that she couldn't give a blow job to someone she loves.
The marriage ended because she cheated on him... lots. Including his discovery that she'd had sex with one of the teenage daughters friends.
So understandably he has issues surrounding sex, which we're working through. I give him oral sex regularly, but he never returns the favour. I think he's actually scared! We've spoken about it lots and he tries to diffuse the situation with humour rather than actually taking the bull by the horns. Would this be a deal breaker for you? I'm not sure.

He's otherwise very loving, trying hard to work through his issues, great with my children (yes, shock horror! They've met already!) and generally fantastic. So caring and appreciative of me, my opinions, identity etc.

MrMcSeeks you have misunderstood. I was simply saying that I didn't believe the story that the reason he didn't want to go down on the OP was because of his ex wife. No different rules for men and women and no suggestion that all men are liars FFS, some nerves been touched on this thread!! For some reason the OPs DP doesn't seem to want to go down on her so a frank conversation is needed if it's an issue, which it must be given the OP started the thread. And it was the OP herself that asked is it a deal breaker so obviously people are going to answer the question! As you can see above for many people yes it is, sexual compatability is pretty important in a relationship. Whether it is a deal breaker for the OP is for her to decide.

I think if the guy treats you well in other ways but this is the one thing he doesn' want to do then whats the problem?

The problem is that if its something you find incredibly pleasurable you may not want to go without it for the rest of your life! Would you expect never to have sex again just because your partner 'treats you well'?

@xici

What if it was a favourite position that your other half wasn't comfortable with?

I mean if it's literally the only way you're gonna reach climax, then you're probably incompatible overall and it is a deal breaker. But if you can find another way, surely all sex is good right?

skinnypete no all sex is not good. I don't think that there are many women around that havent experienced crap sex before. Not sure what you are getting at with your favourite position analogy but if that position was one that brought me to intense orgasm then yes I'd feel the same way about that. Usually however it is oral that does this for most women, all the ones that I've discussed this with anyway. Hence why you're seeing the deal breaker comments

As I said, if it's the only way to get off, then sure. I've never met a woman that couldn't in other ways though, although oral is for sure consistent.

The position analogy was made because there are two positions that guarantee me the most intense orgasm, but I've had partners that regularly felt uncomfortable with it because it was too deep. They didn't get dumped, we figured out other ways.

pete over 75% of women don't orgasm from piv alone so those 'other ways' are pretty important. And a man going down on a woman isn't going to cause them pain and discomfort like your favourite positions so it's hardly comparable.

Anyway OP I hope you can sort it out with him. If you've tried speaking to him lots and he just bats you off and he's not done it once in 6 months it doesn't seem likely he'll ever want to. Only you can decide how important it is in terms of your relationship

Just for a bit of background, that originally seemed irrelevant to begin with...

We actually had a brief fling about 15 years ago. He always went down back then, in fact there was no stopping him. We then went on to both marry other people before reuniting last year. Since then he struggles with sex. He's not the man he was before. He's also paying for private sex therapy to overcome what he's been through.

Not everything is disingenuous or needs further explanation. It is what it is.

Not all women struggle to orgasm, by the way. I can't stop myself from reaching a very wet climax and I don't NEED oral. I'm satisfied. Very satisfied. I just happen to like oral sex.

Oh, just reading my first comment back there and knowing how mumsnet seems to work. We did not have any contact, sexual or otherwise, whilst we were both married to other people. His marriage had been over for years, and mine a reasonable amount of time before he asked if I'd like to go for a coffee.

@jocsin

Good for you. I can only imagine how great it must be to have a partner who gets wet and orgasms easily.

My experience in all but my first partner is that other than the first few times where excitement and novelty overrides everything else and she's wet from the get go, thereafter, a marathon of foreplay is required which eventually gets tedious and a little dispiriting, especially wen there's little feedback.

I know it's a bit immature and perhaps unrealistic, not to mention ignoring that men and women are wired differently, but is it not too much to hope that on occasion your partner might be interested in sex, horny and excited enough to be wet in anticipation, or easily aroused shortly after?

I can only liken it to how it might feel if as a woman you got into bed with your partner, snogged, stroked, caressed, massaged for a good while, to then put your hand down there and discover no erection. So you then give him a 20 minute hand job or blow job and eventually, it gets just about firm enough for penetration.

Kind of leaves me feeling that if I'm that crap, or she's that disinterested, lets not bother, eh? So when you do start having sex, you;re already disappointed and on a downer and not really into it anymore.

Sorry, had to get that out there. As you were....

I guess some people just have lower libidos and generally enjoy less? I don't know...
But for me the situation you describe is untenable. I'd be gone.

@jocsin

Yep, it's afar from ideal and sadly where we've been for some years now.
Problem is, there's our children, the family unit, that fact that we love each other very much, that even if we did split, financially we couldn't be independent of each other, in addition to other complex factors that would make a split VERY difficult indeed for everyone.

And before anyone jumps in with think of how the kids feel = they kids are fine and don't know any different. We still hug and kiss each other, show affection frequently and operate in a totally normal and expected capacity from their point of view. A child would never be aware of whether their parents are sending flirty texts or have any sexual spark, chemistry, enthusiasm or spontaneity going on.

I'm trying to fix it it, but have run out of ideas. Whenever I try to address things, it just makes her feel worse, lowers her confidence and interest in sex, no matter how tactfully I approach it. Stating things need to change for our future together doesn't help, as who wants to feel on notice or vulnerable when your're trying to promote sexual chemistry, spark and enthusiasm.

I feel really selfish and self centred saying it, but when it takes just so bloody long to get her to climax and even then it only becomes wet enough for penetration moments before hand, it just makes me feel crap and useless. Despite asking for tips, direction, what works, what doesn't, what she'd like etc, never getting anything tangible to work with. Her orgasm just becomes this huge elephant in the room mountain to climb. She cannot orgasm during PIV whatsoever, no matter what assistance is given as the feelings distract her, therefore sh can't do anything to me at the same time, so I've just got to to work at it, alone until the job is done.

Plus, once shes eventually orgasm'd it's done for her, so the PIV becomes a one way street just for me, which is then crap as who wants a nonchalant passenger? We tried doing PIV first, but at what point do you stop and start on her, knowing you're starting from zero and that all that has gone before has done nothing to begin the journey.

Just lost as to what to do.

Is it wrong to crave PIV where the other person is really into it and is rising in excitement through the journey, enthusiastically joining in and craving it equally? If I stop half way through (normally through utter boredom) she's just not bothered, other than sad I wasn't enjoying it. Bit there's no 'oh, please don't stop' like it was actually doing anything for her.

Have you tried lubricant @stressedguy ?

Then switch to her in between PIV for a bit, back and to.

Yeah, we tried that - feels a bit fake and unatural. Problem is that whenever we stop, its like starting from scratch again up the orgasm mountain.

If orgasm is 10, starting at 1, it's not like after a load of PIV with added stimulation she's at a 6 or 7 and just needs tipping over the edge, it's 1 or 2 at best, so there's another 20-30 mins of hand or oral work with nothing coming back. It's not like she's vocal, arching her back and oohing and ahh'ing or talking dirty et to keep it interesting or encouraging. I'm ashamed to say if feels like a chore and can be very boring and dispiriting. By the time it's over and she's come or given up and called time, I'm more relieved than turned on and just want to go and sort myself out in private, as I'm full of sadness and resentment at that point.

When we're doing PIV, it just doesn't lead anywhere or create any build up or excitement. All very passive and agreeable. I try all sorts of positions, all types of angles and techniques, offering this, that and the other. Everything's 'nice'. But I never see any attempt for her to try and chase an orgasm, or adjust her position to help matters or make it feel nicer - just goes with the flow in a very matter of fact kind of way. She says she's enjoying it, but I sense it's in the same way you'd enjoy a foot massage. If I carried on and on, absolutely nothing would happen until she completely dried out, got sore and asked me to stop.I'd give up long before that.

I see sex scenes on TV or in films where there is clearly some passionate desire and hunger on behalf of the woman and feel sick to the pit of my stomach with envy.

I've contemplated a sex therapist but wonder what they'd say given the above. Just not horny, rude or sexy. End of. Depressing.

I didn't want to just read and run, despite not really having much to offer in the way of advice I'm afraid. It sounds like you're really doing your best to turn this around and have her pleasure as your foremost concern.
I'm almost 40 and I'm afraid things do start to 'dry up' as you get older. I noticed it after childbirth anyway. We always have a big bottle of water based lube in the bedside drawer. Sex just wouldn't be the same without it.
I orgasm quite easily and usually ejaculate these days, which is quite exciting. But lube is essential to get things going.

@jocsin

The thing is, there have been one or two occasions in recent memory where she has been nice and wet, and sorry for TMI, but wet enough where you could drag some of it up and over her clit -assuming that is plenty wet? So I know the capability is there.

I just wish you could keep a bottle of enthusiasm, rudeness, spark, a little bit dirty/naughty, confident etc by the bed. I'd buy it by the bucket load.

The problem is, she doesn't have a problem. When we talk about it, sex is fine for her. It's nice. Her only awareness of a problem is that I have a problem and there's sod all she can do about it. She's tried to talk dirty and it's like listening to the Archers and makes me cringe.

It's not like I can be selfish and enjoy what comes my way as her oral and hand technique is hopeless, despite frequent guiding and suggesting. You know when someone just can't do 'sexy, sensual or use any imagination whatsoever, hence I've never finished from anything other than PIV, and that's with me doing all the work.

This is a daft question, but do you always have sober sex?

If she's wet enough for what you describe then her body is able, it just sounds like her mind is not willing. I'm so sorry, but how can you come back from this? You can't is the answer. You either love her the way she is, or you leave.

Also, how often do you have sex? If you don't mind me asking? And do you always initiate? Do you ask her to dress sexy or do other things to spice it up?

I feel like Dear Deirdre, but glad to help if I can. xxx

Neither of us drink and never have, just not on our radar. The only time I ever saw her drink was a sip of champagne as a toast during our wedding.

How often? I'd like it every day. When we first got together, and things settled down but still in early phase of the relationship, it was probably 3 - 4 times a week. Less than I wanted, but just about acceptable to for my personal desires and drive, hoping that quality might override quantity.... assuming the quality would materialise over time with confidence and familiarity etc. (it didn't).

Dunno whether it was bait and switch, but things gradually declined ever since so now it varies between nothing for weeks if we're on a dry spell and I'm deliberately not mentioning it or initiating to make sure there's no pressure etc, to more recently maybe once or twice a week as the abstinence is driving me nuts.

I'm climbing the walls with frustration inside, but keeping that to myself for as long as is possible, but it's not long term sustainable, unless I accept a life of unfulfilment and unhappiness..

Sex has become the big issue in our marriage now.

I've internally analysed and scrutinised it to death, trying to work out what the missing part is, and ultimately, the sexual side of our relationship is missing horniness on her part. There's just no appetite for anything rude, naughty, sexy, dirty, adventurous, fun or exciting.

Everything is just so dull and timid. I want to be encouraged, egged on - I want to be asked for it harder, faster, slower, like this, like that.... anything to demonstrate enthusiasm and enjoyment.

The last few times I've literally stopped half way through and just given up as I've not been enjoying it. Thrusting away with just a mild response that doesn't lead anywhere. I'm thinking to myself, "so do I just keep doing this for my own selfish pleasure until I'm done? You're just not bothered are you? If I stop now, it's not like you'll feel you're missing out, or left high and dry and frustrated, you know what... nuts to this, let's just not bother...." etc. And at that point I quit and sort myself out in private afterwards. I can at least be enthusiastic about it and imagine a women who displays sexual excitement and some kind of internal desire.

I feel a bit sorry for her as there are times when she does try, but it's so absolutely obvious that it's fake that it makes the situation worse as I know deep down inside it's not natural and she's not feeling as horny as she pretends to be.

I read threads about people dressing up, trying some sexy underwear, maybe sending a flirty text and giving a sexy look and hinting of things to come later that day. Never happened. Ever.

Absolutely no spark, chemistry or meeting of sexual minds whatsoever. Plenty of affection, cuddles, hugs and kisses - just like I enjoy with the kids that type of affection.

Like I say, what would a therapist say to that other than, "good luck with the divorce".

Any meds like SSRI or contraceptive pill?

Nope, not for a good while now. It did impact things for a bit, from little to zero, but now they're back to the normal low levels.

Perhaps it's me. I try everything I can think of, every technique. I make it my mission to provide as much pleasure as I possibly can to try and light a fire, but it's just not there.

At the moment, the children are my priority, so if I have to endure this whilst they're still at home, I'll lie in the bed I've made. They're too important to me.

Me again. I'm so sorry, I have nothing constructive for you, but I've read every word and I really feel for you in a situation like this.
The reason I asked if you ask her to dress sexily etc is because I was reading another thread about men who send texts to their wife like 'Be home soon. Put something sexy on'. And the general consensus from women is that that sort of request is a massive turn off. I just wondered if there was any pressure coming from you to have sex with your wife. It really sounds as if there isn't at all though.

I think it very much sounds like your wife has an almost non existent sex drive. I really don't think there's much that can be done about that though. 😞

@stressedguy What kind of shape are you in?

@skinnyPete
Not a stealth boast at all, but for someone in their 40's I like to think I'm in very good shape. I train 2 -3 times a week and always have since my late teens, I'm over 6' tall, about 15% body fat, decent muscle tone - not 'Mens Health' by any stretch, but not a million miles away from say a swimmer or male gymnast physique. Certainly not the beer bellied, over weight, middle aged slob I see everywhere.

@jocsin I've tried the no pressure (not that pressure is ever the goal) route which just ends up in no sex, or very little, of which is just as dull and mechanical as usual.
The thing is, by raising my concerns and unhappiness has created pressure in itself, as she now knows this is a big problem for me and one I've stated that I can't see carrying on forever.
I do however see it from her point of view and worry deep down inside that there isn't anything she can do that doesn't involve pretending, and fake is worse than reality in my experience.
I fear that she will just never ever be a sexy person again (not that it was ever more than a glimmer of hope).
I'm lost in what's realistic in a long term marriage with kids and what's just idealistic fantasy, however I read enough posts on hear to know that there are couples out there and women that enjoy sex, have urges, feel horny, look forward, do a little flirting, have that inner craving, at some level, and that express it with their partners.

Outside of the bedroom our life is like living with a sibling - absolutely zero sexual reference, thought, comment, knowing look, cheeky smile, innuendo... absolutely zero. That cannot be normal, or shall e say common? Can it?

Am I unreasonable to want just that little bit of sexiness in a relationship?

My confidence and self esteem is on the floor.

No, you're not unreasonable at all. I couldn't live like that. But I honestly don't think there's a simple answer to the problem. The only answer appears to be that you accept her as she is and continue as you are, or you separate.