Orgasm - who's responsibility?

[Familymanhusband]

Just looking for people's views on who's responsibility it is to provide an orgasm?

Not a gender specific question, however due to the more frequent difficulty in women achieving orgasm compared to men, I guess it's likely to resonate more in this area.

For example, in a hetro couple, is it the man's responsibility to provide his partner with an orgasm, or should she take some or all the responsibility to ensure she has one - whether this be using her fingers for added manual stimulation, or asking for a certain position, depth, speed or what ever, or should the woman just go with the flow and hope the man's efforts provide an orgasm?

In trying to answer the question myself, I found gender equality featuring in my thoughts. For example, if a man was to lie back and expect the woman to do all the work and keep going until he had an orgasm, would that be considered acceptable? I felt not, therefore the opposite cannot be fair either? In which case that supports the concept that a woman must take at least some of the responsibility to reach orgasm. Yet that doesn't always seem to be the case.

Thoughts?

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"Responsibility" seemns an odd word to use to me.

If two people are sleeping together then it would be...considerate? manners? good form? to consider their partner's enjoyment and want to act conducively to them getting there.

Interesting points.

Never that simple or easy though. There's children, a wife you love and adore, a family unit etc, etc - all things that hold different values to different people. To me they are hugely valuable and not something to give up on a whim to go and chase someone who feels more horny.

If I was in my 20's and living in a rented flat with little or no commitments, I'd reconsider, but with far much more at stake, and far more things at risk that are so important to me, plus my own sense of morality and commitment, leaving or cheating isn't on the agenda.

Who benefits from this loyalty and commitment? My wife, my children, the family unit, my conscience, my soul, my sense of duty etc, etc. Not preaching, just putting it out there that we all have a different perspective on the values of things in our lives.

I'm old enough and ugly enough to know that giving up so much, along with all the pain and suffering that it would bring to me, my wife and my children, just so I can chase 'horny' is just too selfish and narrow minded - for me at least, in my position.

Do I want my cake and to be able to eat it. Yep. Too much to ask? Seems like it.

@ JAPAB

I get the term 'considerate' and I feel I'm being hugely considerate.

I'm focusing so much on providing pleasure and orgasm for my partner. My lack of success and apparent lack of appetite to chase/receive leaves me wondering whether to keep on trying or whether I should leave it to her to work out how to make it happen, hence the term 'responsibility' - don't leave it all to me, you have a go.

i.e, "I've done all I can, it's clearly not working for you, or it's such a long winded bloody marathon effort, tell you what, why don't you drive the orgasm bus for a while and I'll enjoy the view for a bit?"

Hope that makes sense?

So your with you wife out of duty ?

It's not about being horny it's about more than that .
Has it ever crossed your mind that she also deserves to be with someone she feels she wants to connect with intimately ?
Maybe it's just not you .
No need to cheat .... you can still maintain integrity and you have a choice . But hey ho .... your children will admire and base their future relationships on your relationship ( would you want the same for you son / daughter ?) and you will not get a god star for staying in a sexless marriage and being committed .

@Tinkerbellx

I never said it was sexless.

I asked who's responsibility was it to provide an orgasm.

She feels she is able to connect and is perfectly happy, she doesn't have a problem, confirmed when we talk.

My marriage vows included the following "...to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, forsaking all others...."

So for me, going elsewhere is not part of the deal.

My children will base their future relationships on loving parents who love each other, stayed together, provided a strong, healthy, happy family unit, and stood by each other through thick and thin.

You seem to be basing your comments on some incorrect assumptions.

Everything else is great. There are no rows, arguments or displays of unhappiness. My wife is perfectly happy, and when we discuss things, she is professes contentment both in and out of the bedroom.

The only issue is that I don't feel particularly needed sexually, nor able to please her how I'd like, to the point where I'm questioning how much responsibility I should take for giving my wife an orgasm, hence this thread.

Please don't assume there is an unhappy home with children getting a skewed idea of marriage or relationships. What does, or does not go on in the bedroom is of no concern of theirs and has no negative impact on family life.

Your right I'm sorry .
I just feel guilty for all the years we spent staying together for dc when there was no connection just a bad bad atmosphere .

Have you thought about relate or couple therapy to focus on this ?
May bring up things maybe you haven't broached together ?

But FamilyMan you said on the Frustrated Guy thread just now 'im utterly convinced my DP no longer fancies me' - is is that not you? You've also expressed a fair amount of exasperation and resentment. I get that you don't think any of this justifies a divorce (or affair) and that's your choice but i had the same reaction to the word 'duty'....i also think you're abs kidding yourself if you think kids aren't affected by this kind of stuff, also i don't know if yours are old enough to be having sex themselves yet but thats a huge gamechanger in my experience - your reaction to them in that situation and ability to cope with the transition is hugely influenced by your own sexual happiness

I want to jump in and provide a different perspective.

I am like your wife. I have (almost) never been able to orgasm with a partner, no matter how hard I tried. It only happened 2 or 3 times, at the end of what you describe as "long marathons where stars have to align". That is literally the only way for me to orgasm, and I am conscious that is a bit too much for most people.

So I just know it won't happen. I still enjoy sex even though it never brings me an orgasm, as I enjoy the connection and the feeling of intimacy. Because I know I won't be able to orgasm, I am more than happy to go along with what I know will make my partner orgasm.

It strikes me though that you say that you'd anything to make your wife orgasm, and yet you are not willing to do those lengthy marathons of oral sex that seem to be what your wife needs to orgasm. If that is what she needs and you are not willing to do it, as you don't enjoy it, then I am not so sure you are doing "anything in your power", as you seem to think.

@AnnaPannocchia

Just for clarity, I didn't say I don't like doing it, it's just that it's such a long winded process that is met with such little enthusiasm, that I wonder whether I should bother at all, or whether I should let her take some of the responsibility to help make it happen - hence the thread.

If it was requested, such as "I'd love you to go down on me, I'm dying to cum" or similar, I'd happily oblige for as long as it takes as that demonstrates hunger, passion and desire.

It's when I offer and it's casually accepted with mild enthusiasm, but with then precious little feedback or encouragement for ages and ages, where if I stop half way through, there's no protest or "Oh don't stop, I'm nearly there, please carry on...." indicating she's really into it and feeling horny and passionate about it, I just get disheartened and feel deflated, where I feel I should be feeling excited, needed and encouraged.

Imagine asking your husband if he'd like a blow job and he replied with "I don't mind" or "That'd be nice", then laid back, almost motionless, almost silent and left you to bob up and down for half an hour getting cramp in your jaw and neck ache, with little or no feedback/encouragement and it only very occasionally resulted in a climax - how would it make you feel?

How often or how many times would you carry on doing that?

What if you got a similar response to pretty much everything sexual you did? If he was perfectly happy to participate and enjoyed kissing and being close, but you never felt that you were really rocking his world?

You really want to please, you really want to be best possible lover, but don't eel that you're making much of an impact?

@rebelrebel3

Yep, that was me.
Hopefully my previous post puts some colour round how I feel. I'm not sure whether me feeling a little low about it is just my pride being hurt, or whether i am justified to feel my self esteem and confidence is taking a knock because of it.

I disagree about any impact on children though - as I said before, what goes on in the bedroom is no concern of their's and how would they know. This doesn't alter any part of the dynamic between us outside of the bedroom. We display love, nurture, comfort, cuddles, kisses as one would expect. The only bit I feel is perhaps missing is stuff that wouldn't happen in front of the kids anyway - the horny/flirty/sexy stuff that you keep private.

But the horny flirty stuff is the actual chemistry .
Could it be menopause and just transient ?

Then the chemistry, or her libido is missing.

Not a menopause thing in my opinion as this has been the way of it for the last 10+ years and is still on the young side for menopause, has periods etc.

I ask her if she still fancies me and she says of course she does. She really doesn't see that there's a problem, other than that I keep bringing it up and questioning the bedroom dynamic, to which she responds with anything from "I'm not sure what else you want from me" to moments when she's feeling a little more defensive, "You didn't marry a porn star..."

@Familymanhusband

Your situation is not dissimilar to mine. Happy household, children, not a sexless marriage. Just a passionless one and one where you feel that if sex was not initiated by the male it would never happen.
My DW says I still do it for and she doesn't want to be with anybody else, but there is no flirting, no touching, no sexy messages. If I move in for a cuddle I generally get pushed away. I feel like I am having sex with an old friend!
Like you I am not going to leave as everything else is fine, but I just wish I felt a bit more desired, but have to accept it's never going to be that way.
I always try to provide an orgasm btw and see it as my responsibity because nobody else is going to do it!

@FinnGermey

Sounds very similar.

Sorry to pry, but are you successful in your quest to provide an orgasm?

One of my issues is that I'm not very good at it, or at least the results suggest this. As weird as it sounds, I'd almost prefer it if she expressed frustration or disappointment, as that could at least demonstrate her want and need, a sense of sexuality and desire. But when you fail and they're not bothered, it's almost worse - hence me asking the question, how much should I try? How much should she be trying to help get there?

The holy grail of course would be the ability for her to orgasm through penetration, as that would solve the issue straight away, but I grasp that this is a pipe dream, despite my best efforts. Sadly I experienced this with a previous partner so know it can happen. I just didn't realise or appreciate at the time how amazing this was and thought it the norm.

I wonder if she's really, really shy? As in shy when it comes to sex and a little embarrassed to let herself go/ throw herself into it?

If you can talk about things openly, have you discussed fantasies? I wonder what would happen if you suggested trying some role-playing, if any particular scenario would intrigue her - where 'getting into character' might remove any self-consciousness about being 'sexy'?

Could allow her to throw caution to the winds and get stuck in to exploring sex and what makes her feel good.

Obviously, could backfire and the merest suggestion of role play may make her (and you!) feel ridiculous and cringe to death

I really do think a lot of women are socialised into feeling self-conscious about sexual pleasure and fulfilment, though.

@AbsentmindedWoman

She's definitely an introvert and not a confident person in general.
Role play would just not be an option for her - she hates all that stuff. She absolutely would not want to dress up - acting or putting on a show is utterly alien to her.
We've discussed it casually a few times and I'm left under no illusion as to how she feels, not that role playing is something I'm interested in.
I guess 'fun' or 'play' isn't something she links to sex (or anything to be fair).
Letting go and getting into it are interested concepts that I can't ever imagine, as there's no evidence she does this in any other part of her life. She doesn't drink (a drop, ever - only had a sip of champagne on our wedding day to toast), I've never seen her drunk in he life.
She doesn't ever go out with friends and let her hair down - she's just not a let your hair down type, nor expresses any wish to do so.
She's a hard working, earnest and dedicated mother, but the polar opposite of a party animal or 'good time girl'.
A very kind, gentle, softly spoken, introverted, ultra-low maintenance person with very few wants, needs or desires.
If I stopped suddenly half way through sex, there'd be no panting or frustration or WTF? etc, as if I'd taken away something precious, she'd just nonchalantly be like "Oh... is everything alright?" then just read a book or turn the light off, seemingly content and in no way disappointed, nor would she display any feeling of concern, worry or paranoia that I might have stopped because of something to do with her? It just doesn't seem to register.

From what you describe, it doesn't sound to me like your wife is fully in touch with her own needs, or maybe how to communicate them.

You say she's a very low maintenance person, with few wants or needs or desires. The thing is though - every human being has needs. The difference is whether you know what those are, or not.

She could be asexual, and is happy and content with sex when you initiate as she's very much in love with you. The descriptions of her mild enjoyment of sex, with no urgency, read to me a little like descriptions by asexual people who do sometimes have sex with they people they love. They get something out of it, but it's different to the physical raging lust that non-asexual people experience. So in this case maybe her needs are actually being met perfectly, but there's confusion between you, because your needs are very different, so you can't understand how she's happy.

Equally for whatever reason - she may not be asexual, but has fenced off part of her sexual self for some reason. But if somebody does not want to discuss that, then obviously there's nothing you can do, except make it clear that you're there for her to listen and be supportive if she ever wants to talk about it.

On a purely practical level though, I wonder if you could do something differently about what you describe below? You say it's a long winded process (definitely sounds more like work than sex!) so what would happen if you suggested you taking care of her using a vibrator instead of you having to give oral for such a long time? When the vibrator is doing it's thing, you could do some sensation play tracing feathers or ice gently along her body.

I feel like I'm starting to write erotic fiction tropes so going to stop here Obviously it's only if you think it would be mutually enjoyable. I am not encouraging putting pressure on anyone else to have sex, or to experiment if they just don't want to. But my point is, sex is much more than just penis in vagina, or giving/ receiving oral.

"Just for clarity, I didn't say I don't like doing it, it's just that it's such a long winded process that is met with such little enthusiasm, that I wonder whether I should bother at all, or whether I should let her take some of the responsibility to help make it happen - hence the thread.

If it was requested, such as "I'd love you to go down on me, I'm dying to cum" or similar, I'd happily oblige for as long as it takes as that demonstrates hunger, passion and desire.

It's when I offer and it's casually accepted with mild enthusiasm, but with then precious little feedback or encouragement for ages and ages, where if I stop half way through, there's no protest or "Oh don't stop, I'm nearly there, please carry on...." indicating she's really into it and feeling horny and passionate about it, I just get disheartened and feel deflated, where I feel I should be feeling excited, needed and encouraged.

Imagine asking your husband if he'd like a blow job and he replied with "I don't mind" or "That'd be nice", then laid back, almost motionless, almost silent and left you to bob up and down for half an hour getting cramp in your jaw and neck ache, with little or no feedback/encouragement and it only very occasionally resulted in a climax - how would it make you feel?"

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I asked her once if she felt she was asexual, but she vehemently denied it, confirming that she used to masturbate on occasion and remembers feeling horny when reading sexy novels or watching sex scenes on TV so I don't believe asexuality is the issue.

We've tried a vibrator, with me doing other stuff, but in order for her to climax, I have to lie perfectly still and not thrust, otherwise it distracts her. I find this saddening that me being inside her detracts, rather than adds to the experience.

If I use the vibrator on her, nothing happens, despite me trying to replicate what she does herself, so eventually she takes over and I've got to just lie there patiently for 20 mins or so, making sure I don't disturb or interrupt her, which quite frankly I find a rubbish and quite a lonely place to be, making me feel superfluous to requirements, which exacerbates my feeling of being inadequate.

Even if she does eventually give herself an orgasm with the vibrator and I'm not feeling pushed away too much and we continue, sex then ceases to be a two way process and she becomes a willing, but totally passive partner, giving me the feeling that she's just waiting for me to finish, no longer interested in what's going on but happy to participate so as not to be selfish. I have to suggest every position change, or ask her to do something for me. There's no carnal desire, lust or 'hunger'.

I say it becomes a long winded process because the lack or response, feedback or evidence she's enjoying it gets boring, which added to making me feel like a poor lover leaves me feeling sad and disappointed. If she was making noises of pleasure or squirming around etc, that would be great and it'd turn me on, but to get such little response - how would that make the women reading this thread feel?

Manual foreplay and oral to me is now just a process to make me disappointed, sad and feel inadequate. Does that make sense or am I wrong to feel this way?

I keep reading on this board about sex starting earlier in the day, building tension etc - I've never had a sexy text message or picture from her ever, nor anything sexual down the phone when we're talking.

It's always, "What time will you bee home, can you pick up some milk", rather than "What time will you be home, I've really missed you and want to make love" or whatever a sexy conversation with your partner is meant to sound like - I've never had one, ever. From anyone. Ever.
And whenever I've tried it, I get no response, just silence or something very unsexy or non-committal in return, hence if I try it now, if feels weird like I'm being creepy or something.

I certainly wouldn't say I'm any kind of expert on any of this. Sex drive waxes and wanes, and I'm afraid a lot of my middle aged female friends say it has only declined for them particularly after the menopause and it is possible she simply doesn't have the sex drive she used to.

I do note on another thread that you think of even 5 x a month as a low level of sex. At times when my sex drive is low I would find once a week quite difficult to maintain. What if you chose between once a fortnight, with more desire on her part, or your current level (whatever that is) as it currently is? Could that be a basis for discussion? Of course it is a risk - that less sex breeds less desire.

I have sometimes linked on here to a marriage counselling course that sounded very good, though I didn't do it myself (got as far as thinking about it...) Not everyone's cup of tea as it is run by a church. Just found the link again here Do note the bit where it says couples tend to think if they can sort sex out, everything else will improve, whereas their experience is that other issues need sorting out first, by which time sex has often improved on its own.

She not menopausal, still has regular periods and has been this way for many years. Most of what I describe has been the way of it from the beginning, bit instead of improving as we got to know each other where confidence and experience helps improve things, it got worse over the years to the point where now I'm fed up.

I have a high sex drive - baring illness or a particularly significant external stresses, I'd like to have sex every day, a bit like I enjoy breakfast every day. I'm a bit simplistic about it - it feels nice, so why wouldn't I? I'd often like it twice, say once in the morning on a weekend and if circumstances allow, again at night.

As I;m sure you can imagine, the above doesn't happen.

In the same breath, I'm be content to go few days without if need be and regularly do when it's the time of the month or I'm away with work.

At our lowest, when things haven't been great, we've gone nearly 3 months without which was pure and utter hell, and a symptom of other issues going on at the time.

At our best, our average is maybe 2-3 times a week, which I believe is average for average couples, but not quite enough for me, especially when it's unfulfilling.

Going a week or two without as a long term strategy doesn't work for me. Even when we've had a drought, the first time isn't any different.

The problem is, because it's not fulfilling and doesn't leave me feeling satisfied (emotionally and psychologically) I'm still left craving only hours afterwards so the hunger / desire never goes away.

OK I give up, you've got me Back to the original question - Yes I do think it's the responsibility of an individual to get their own orgasm to happen, directly or indirectly.

There seem to be two main possibilities. One is that she is simply OK with things as they are, whereas it's a major issue for you - and that doesn't sound resolvable in itself. The other is that she does actually know you would like more enthusiasm and is unable/deliberately not providing it. I wonder what happened when 'things weren't great' and whether things were really resolved. I note you didn't mention/dismiss the marriage course I linked to - it might be worth a go.

Marriage counselling isn't on her radar as she doesn't believe there's a problem.

My issues is I've lost a sense of what normal is.

I might be sitting here wishing for things that simple aren't what goes on in LTRs.

I want to feel 'needed' and 'desired', 'fancied' and able to quench a sexual thirst.

I'd like to think that my life partner sexually desires me, enthusiastically seeks sex with me and looks forward to doing it again soon. I'd like to be flirted with a little, or just at least made to feel like sex is on her mind from time to time, outside of the bedroom when all the stars have to be aligned.

It doesn't seem like too much to ask for, but I might be deluded.

I'm just fed up of her appearing totally and utterly not arsed.