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Secondary education

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Original poster

Secondary Waiting Lists 2010

73 replies

sue41 · 06/04/2010 17:31

Does anyone have any idea when the 'movements' start??

My daughter is 11th on her first choice, 20th on her second, 22nd on the addtional school we considered, 27th on our third choice and 63rd on our 4th choice..... I really don't know what, if any, chance she has for any of the schools?????

She asks virtually everyday if she is nearer to the top, but so far has only moved one spot up on one list and one spot down on another!!

Help

OP posts:
admission · 14/05/2010 11:51

Sounds like the sensible things to raise at your appeal but you can, as you found out at Copthall, expect everybody else to be saying exactly the same things.

If you do not have anything stronger to put in your appeal then maybe the only way forward is to consider attacking the LA's case for not admitting in part 1. That has two effects. Firstly if it works really well the panel say the school have not made their case and all are admitted. Obviously the less parents who are appealing the more likely this is to happen as for the panel the decision is all admitted or none admitted.

Secondly when it comes to the second stage the panel will possibly have come to the conclusion that they could not admit all the appealants, but that the school's case is potentially weak. At that point the panel are saying that the prejudice to the school is low and therefore the appealants case has to be that less compelling to overcome the prejudice to the school.

This is all about balancing the cases but the more compelling your case is in part 2 and the less compelling the school's case is not to admit, the more possible is the case that the panel will agree to admit your child.

So attack the schools case. Question what the actual measured net capacity is against the agreed net capacity. There are actually two figures, the measured figure and a figure which is 90% of that figure. The school can agree any figure between the two that is sensible. If it is at the lowest end the real net capacity could be 150 pupils more in a 1500 pupil secondary school. Question whether the school is utilising the available classrooms effectively. How do the school's results compare? Are they increasing even though the school numbers may also be going up and does this mean that one of the assumptions that increasing number of pupils means lower results is not valid. Whilst it is unlikely that any of these questions are killer blows to the school's case not to admit they all chip away at the validity of the case.

Original poster
sue41 · 14/05/2010 15:22

Boobadumm

Tks that addtional information and the support. Hopefully its a win situation on Monday, I either win the appeal or hopefully the girl in your DDs class wins we move up another place.

I'll definately look closely over the weekend at the support documentation sent by the council and see if I can spot any gaps I can work on.

Sue

OP posts:
Original poster
sue41 · 14/05/2010 15:25

Dear admission

Tks your help and advice. I'll look closely and see if I can find anything I can use in the info they have provided.

QE however, is an old building and is likely to cry overcrowding. However, looking at their records they have admitted over their numbers for the past 3-4 years and the school is still one of the best performing schools around (although we're not worried about the academic side, more the mentoring and subject availability side).

Tks again
Sue41

OP posts:
Boobaddum · 16/05/2010 10:59

Hi Sue41

Just wanted to say good luck for tomorrow x

Original poster
sue41 · 18/05/2010 16:11

Boobaddum

Tks your good luck wishes, unfortunately we did not win. Too many stories the same, I changed emphasis from my feelings to the comments of the school and tried to make a case for room at the school as new buildings have been built for the 6th form.

Only 1 out of 7 appeals were successful.

The parents of the girl in your DDs class where there - I don't know if they were successful or not. Ho Hum.....

Checked the waiting list for QE yesterday and was back to 12th, but this morning (I was doing a full check!) DD had moved to 8th!!

Standing now:-

Wren 5th (previously 3rd - two new lots
moved in!)
QE Girls 8th (previously 11th)
Copthall 24th (previously 26th)
Friern Barnet 14th (previously 15th)
Compton 54th (previously 57th!)

The most spectacular of the above being QE girls moving 4 places overnight.

The most disappointing Wren......

Only the Wren appeal left, now need to think strongly how to up my presentation!

Sue41

OP posts:
Boobaddum · 18/05/2010 18:10

Hi Sue41

Sorry about your news. Great that you have moved up on QE list but complete bummer about The Wren. Can anybody just add themselves to a list at anytime or is it just newbies moving in? Seems very unreasonable that people can do this. Here's hoping you have some positive news soon.

BB x

Original poster
sue41 · 20/05/2010 17:44

Hi Boobaddum

I think it's anyone can add, not sure, but these two apparently just moved into the area. As you say, bummer.

I wonder if the other couple got into QE girls at the appeal - I'll be doing my usual check on the w/l on Monday (want to call everyday but then they really would get fed up of me!!).

Wonder how Princess Tippy Toes is doing...

Sue41

OP posts:
Inkpen · 21/05/2010 23:43

Hi Sue 41
From our experience of appeals ...
Go for the positive - often just a matter of how you phrase it. I'm sure you know what I mean but eg. rather than saying dd would be isolated at allocated school, say that you chose this school because she would have the support of her peer social group which you know is key to her success in school (with the evidence you have). We were advised not to diss the allocated school. You have an advantage here, seems to me, if this school is your first choice so try to let your genuine enthusiasm for the school show. Not easy when you're stressed, I know! (I did fine till the very last sentence of my summing up when I began to cry!) We also aimed to be as honest and straightforward with them as we could so they knew we weren't just playing the system. You sound like you've done well so far, just that the sheer numbers are against you.
Don't despair if this appeal goes down too. You are still high up the waiting list and I also know someone who got a place at chosen school August Bank Hol w/e ...
How's your dd doing? Good luck.

Original poster
sue41 · 22/05/2010 10:40

Dear Inkpen

Thanks the advice, my headmaster is going to go over it with me.

Tks also the support, it is much appreciated.

Sue41

OP posts:
busymummy3 · 23/05/2010 11:47

Do you have a cluster school agreement for admissions in your LA or is it Catchment? Was just wondering where the majority of your DDs class are going or is it that they are all fairly spread out going to different secondary schools? of which by your list Copthall seems the most popular-14 girls.

mumoverseas · 23/05/2010 12:35

Just found this thread and wanted to say Sue that my heart goes out to you. How stressful this must be for you.
I was so spoilt when DC 1 and 2 started school as I was able to send them private and until recently had no idea how stressful all this waiting lists issue is.
I had already decided that DC3 and 4 would not be going private and am dreading going through all this myself in a few years.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you and your DD

Original poster
sue41 · 23/05/2010 20:51

Hi busymummy3 - it's catchment. Copthall is very popular (it's actually my old school!), it has fairly good results and is one of three girls only schools in Barnet (Barnet being the biggest London borough) - one of the three is Catholic only - so it's just the two. Just a matter of where you live, were sort of just in the middle of a lot of the end of catchment area lines - a little black hole!!

OP posts:
Original poster
sue41 · 23/05/2010 20:53

Hi mumoverseas

Good luck for your DC3 and 4 - I have 3 and one got into our first choice on appeal, one got into our 3rd choice (and is very happy!).

I'm sure it will all go well - if you are moving before they start I'd look closely at the catchment areas and schools before you move.

Tks for your best wishes

Sue41

OP posts:
busymummy3 · 23/05/2010 23:05

Hi Sue 41 so I take it that the catchment school is not good? How many kids in your DD'S class will be going to the catchment school or is it that the catchment area that you are in is so small that your DD will be the only one going to it and you would prefer that she went with some of her friends? ( the penny will drop in a minute!) its just that our LA operate a cluster school system and this seems on the whole a lot fairer- you know from the outset which secondary school your primary feeds into .

Original poster
sue41 · 24/05/2010 05:44

Hi busymummy3

Yes it sounds your systems is fairer, feeder schools mean more kids continue together. No ours is distance and even though we may all go to the same primary school, people are different distances from the schools.

We're on the outer edge of the primary and are in a sort of small hole that is not in the actual catchment area of any of the nearest secondary schools (apart from the one she was allocated, but that particular school doesn't have a catchment area as it is not v. popular). The trouble with catchment areas is they change every year - for our first choice we were in the catchment area for the past two years running - we're 0.829 miles and its the closest one apart from the religious schools, last year the catchment was 0.906 and this year it was just 0.629 miles.

Sue41

OP posts:
busymummy3 · 24/05/2010 14:07

Hi Sue 41 I feel for you that for 2 years running you would have been in the catchment area for your preferred school I cannot begin to understand how frustrated you must feel especially when it seems as if they just keep changing the goalposts I wish you Good Luck and will keep my fingers crossed that all will turn out well in the end- being 5th?on waiting list must be pretty hopeful?

Original poster
sue41 · 24/05/2010 15:34

4th today!!

OP posts:
mumoverseas · 25/05/2010 10:29

fingers crossed for you.
I just don't get how you can go down a waiting list. Oh course I understand that new people move into a catchment area but I was under the impression that applications had to be in by a cut off date and surely if they move after then they can't backdate their application?

Sale of DH would at least pay for the uniform

Original poster
sue41 · 25/05/2010 13:08

They take it that if they move-in to the area and they are nearer it is fairer, I suppose (although not to those already on the list!!). As they weren't there at time of application, they are not treated as being late, just as newcomers to the area.

Sell the husband, ... mine might make enough for the socks and maybe the gym kit!! Bless him.

Sue41

OP posts:
Original poster
sue41 · 25/05/2010 14:14

Just this weeks update on waiting list status:-

Wren 4th (up one place from last week)
QE Girls 8th (no movement)
Copthall 23rd (previously 24th)
Friern Barnet 15th (previously 14th)
Compton 55th (previously 54th!)

It's become a little like a yo-yo at the moment with her going up and down the lists by one or two places a week.

Good luck to all those on the waiting list, the next list will be after half term, I am hopeful that, like over Easter, there might be quite a bit of movement over half term (hopefully in my favour!!).

Sue41

OP posts:
mumoverseas · 26/05/2010 07:43

so really, to guarantee a place at your chosen school you have to buy the house next door to it?

Good luck Sue

Original poster
sue41 · 26/05/2010 10:05

To truely guarantee it, yes least chance is living next door (just think of the noise in break times!!).

It depends on the area, you should be OK as long as your within 1/2" a mile from the most popular schools and 1 mile from the good schools (QE above is one of the top
girls schools but their catchment area is
about 1.5 miles, whereas Wren and Compton (maybe as they are mixed) are v. good schools and only have a catchment of just
over 0.5 of a mile!!

OP posts:
sunnydelight · 27/05/2010 01:18

Did you have your Wren appeal Sue?

Original poster
sue41 · 27/05/2010 10:39

Hi sunnydelight - not yet, appeal is on 16th June - keeping my fingers crossed I'll be offered a place from waiting listbefore then!!

OP posts:
sunnydelight · 28/05/2010 08:30

Oh that would be nice wouldn't it, save you the stress! I don't even live in the UK any more but I feel so sorry for all the people who seem to end up in your situation, I've been following your thread from the beginning and will give a big, long distance cheer when you finally get a place (as I'm sure you eventually will)