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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Science should not be enjoyable

92 replies

cococake · 18/03/2010 18:59

Or so says my dd's science teacher tonight!

It was parents evening tonight and my dd's science teacher and form teacher are one and the same.

She is in yr 8. The teacher said all other teachers were very pleased with her, but he wanted to know why her last two science test results were so poor, when she was one of the most able in the class.

He said 'I can't understand what's gone wrong, so can't help fix it.'

So I said to dd 'What's the reason?'

She said 'The topics were boring.'

Teacher said 'That's not an excuse.'

I said 'No that's not an excuse that's her reason, how can we make the topic more enjoyable for you, do you need to write bullet points for revision, draw diagrams, how would you like to revise this.

The teacher said 'She's yr 8, science is not meant to be enjoyable, she just has to accept that she has to learn it.

He then finished the meeting by saying 'I can't understand why the test results were poor, so I can't do anything about it'.

Please any teachers or other parents, explain the other perspective, as I came out with my dd saying is this going to get worse. I said if education was meant to be unenjoyable no one would stay in FE. We'll make it enjoyable for you, and try new study techniques.

BTW she wants to do science at University, so certainly don't want her thinking it's meant to be unenjoyable.

OP posts:

PfftTheMagicDragon · 18/03/2010 19:00

Thats't the spirit!

PfftTheMagicDragon · 18/03/2010 19:00

I mean the teacher btw

paisleyleaf · 18/03/2010 19:03

I wish all science teachers were like Brian Cox
It'd do wonders for the take up and enthusiasm for it.

englishpatient · 18/03/2010 19:07

My daughter's in yr 8 too. She does the three sciences separately at her school and really enjoys them all - they are certainly not boring; they do lots of practical experiments. The teachers are very enthusiastic.

I think your daughter's teacher is disgraceful! Is there a head of science you can complain to - or to the school head? I would not stand for this, especially if she wants to do science at uni.

MaureenMLove · 18/03/2010 19:09

Sounds like her results were poor because she doesn't much like the teacher! DD had fabulous results in Maths in Yr7, great teacher. Yr8, went down - clash of personalities we'll call it! Yr9 bounced right back up again!

TBH, I wouldn't worry too much. Wait until next year and see what happens then. Pound to a penny, if she gets a different teacher, she'll be right back up there.

GrimmaTheNome · 18/03/2010 19:11

I blame the HSE. Dad was a chemistry teacher and he mourned the gradual whittling away of his ability to make science entertaining (usually explosively).

Mind you, I have some sympathy with the teacher - sciences can be hugely enjoyable but they are also serious disciplines. The two are not mutually exclusive. The best enjoyment of science lies in the 'aha' moments of understanding, which may come after painstaking work. There does sometimes seem to be too much creep towards having to make education entertaining.

bloss · 18/03/2010 19:11

Message withdrawn

sarah293 · 18/03/2010 19:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

cococake · 18/03/2010 19:18

MaureenMLove - unfortunately he is her form teacher and science teacher (not sure which discipline of science he will be when they separate next year) for the full 5 yrs of secondary school.

There is a personality clash, but before now her love of the subject has driven her through, which is why I think it's just a case of learning a different way.

Bloss fully agree with your reasoning hence why I thought different techniques would make it interesting. I coloured my periodic table lots of pretty colours to make me remember it for example.

OP posts:

Original poster

cococake · 18/03/2010 19:20

Definitely wish we had Brian Cox.

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BadGardener · 18/03/2010 19:28

I think your dd's attitude is rather poor actually! If she wants to do science at university she will have to accept that some of it is less fun than other stuff and she needs to put in the work whether it is boring or not.
Having said that, I think the teacher handled it badly - it would have made more sense for him to say 'You have to work at the boring stuff in order to get to the fun stuff' rather than 'it's not meant to be enjoyable' (by which I assume he basically just meant 'science is what it is, there are fun bits and boring bits').

butadream · 18/03/2010 19:33

Can't you do some cool stuff at home?

I like the Mentos Coke experiment - see here

and chromatography with a coffee filter here

and dissecting a bull's eye (don't think they let you do this at school any more after BSE)

There may be some good children's lectures locally, worth looking for.

You do still need to tell DD if she wants to do science at uni she needs to pull her finger out, too.

Original poster

cococake · 18/03/2010 19:36

I'm glad you gave me the other perspective there BadGardener. I have talked with it to her and she has set her target to 'engage myself in all work, and ensure I keep my own enthusasim going through slow bits, by writing bullet points, drawing diagrams, illustrating my notes if appropriate'.

I think therefore she's taken on board her side, but I do still think that science should not meant to be enjoyable. And maybe your right on what the teacher meant.

OP posts:

littleducks · 18/03/2010 19:36

what were the topics?

stillenacht · 18/03/2010 19:39

I agree it shouldn't be fun - school is far too much about entertaining them and when it actually comes to work its a shock to them.

Ok maybe thats a bit full on but I think there is some truth to that.

Original poster

cococake · 18/03/2010 19:40

Cross posts butadream hope illustrated dd's realised she can't not get the marks.

Not considered doing science outside before, as before tonight didn't know there was a problem. Funny enough dd declined not to tell me about these two tests!! Unlike all other tests that she let me knows when they are, and what she got for the marks. She obviously knew these 2 wouldn't be good. BTW she has tests have 2 weeks. So it's only the last month that the score has been down.

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GrimmaTheNome · 18/03/2010 19:41

TBH apart from the bulls eye those ideas sound more like 8yr old than yr 8 ... but there must be cool stuff online somewhere for teens.

Coco, any idea what the 'boring' topics were?

stillenacht · 18/03/2010 19:43

The thing is as they get older it is more about learning stuff than whizz bang hands on things I think. It comes to a shock to them all as we (as teachers) are encouraged to do the 'infotainment' thing most of the time but then its such a clunky gear shift when the actual 'hard stuff' has to be covered.

Original poster

cococake · 18/03/2010 19:46

littleducks - i don't know shocking i know but neither party shared that information with me.

stillenacht - dd has always gone to highly academic schools where they are always working a year ahead of themselves, so normally she's working hard anyway.

Just to say, these results weren't poor, they were average, when according to the teacher she should always be along way above average.

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Goblinchild · 18/03/2010 19:47

My boy is Y10 and loves history, but only pre 1500. So he's having to plod through a lot of 20th century stuff that bores the life out of him.
However, in order to do A level, he needs a good grade and that's what he's aiming for. Sometimes you have to wade through the mire to get where you are going. If your daughter is an able student, the teacher may be hoping that she has enough self-discipline to get through the tough parts without needing lessons to have bells, whistles and a sweetie attached.

Original poster

cococake · 18/03/2010 19:48

DD out at band practice, when she returns I'll find out what the topics were.

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starshaker · 18/03/2010 19:48

I had a crap science teacher at school and wasnt allowed to sit the credit paper in my exams. I got a 3 which is top for general. I waanted to do higher biology and said he would fight to keep me out the class.
I now have an hnd in applied sciences and was accepted into 3 unis this year (having to defer cos im preg with twins). I loved science but the teacher put me off and it wasnt till my mid 20's i went back to doing it. Is it possible to get her class changed to a different teacher.
Not sure what year 8 is (im in scotland). But if she wants to do science dont let an arse of a teacher put her off

pointydog · 18/03/2010 19:50

If your dd replied 'the topics were boring' I;m not surprised she got short shrift and quite right too. Every single topic? All of it? I doubt it. A large part of learning is not fun.

Not liking or getting on with a teacher can play a huge part in not liking a subject. Does your dd not like this one? If not, I agree with others that things might improve when the teacher changes and someone new can motivate her better.

Bonsoir · 18/03/2010 19:50

"In languages, this is the sheer drudge of memorising vocabulary and grammar. There is just no substitute for sitting down and learning the rules and reciting them by rote."

Actually, it's a lot more efficient and an awful lot more fun to learn direct method. You don't need to spend nearly as long memorising vocabulary and grammar if you do this.

GrimmaTheNome · 18/03/2010 19:51

This is the sort of thing that might catch the fancy of teens who are into science: FoldIt - seriously important science made into a game.

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