Science should not be enjoyable

[cococake]

Or so says my dd's science teacher tonight!

It was parents evening tonight and my dd's science teacher and form teacher are one and the same.

She is in yr 8. The teacher said all other teachers were very pleased with her, but he wanted to know why her last two science test results were so poor, when she was one of the most able in the class.

He said 'I can't understand what's gone wrong, so can't help fix it.'

So I said to dd 'What's the reason?'

She said 'The topics were boring.'

Teacher said 'That's not an excuse.'

I said 'No that's not an excuse that's her reason, how can we make the topic more enjoyable for you, do you need to write bullet points for revision, draw diagrams, how would you like to revise this.

The teacher said 'She's yr 8, science is not meant to be enjoyable, she just has to accept that she has to learn it.

He then finished the meeting by saying 'I can't understand why the test results were poor, so I can't do anything about it'.

Please any teachers or other parents, explain the other perspective, as I came out with my dd saying is this going to get worse. I said if education was meant to be unenjoyable no one would stay in FE. We'll make it enjoyable for you, and try new study techniques.

BTW she wants to do science at University, so certainly don't want her thinking it's meant to be unenjoyable.

cococake - I teach in a highly selective school and its still the same!

Unfortunately teacher stays with them for the 5 yrs of secondary school.

Yr 8 is 12/13 year olds.

Topics at this school are two week pieces of work, so for 4 lessons, she's not liked the work, when the rest of her work has been above form.

I can see finding two small topics boring possible, but I wanted to suggest ways to make it interesting to her. I.e. writing in spider diagrams, different colours, to make the info stick in her head. Not meaning every lesson has to be experiment. But the teacher said it's not meant to be enjoyable. And I was shocked.

While some things need rote learning, others don't. In science, what's important is understanding. I've a first and PhD in chemistry and certainly never 'learned' the whole periodic table as such. Rather, I learned the shape of it - the trends down and across the groups.

stille - ok fair point, it's always going to be going up a gear.

How far into the parents evening did the teacher see you and your daughter? The teacher mayhave just been saying the same thing over and over and just wanted to say something a bit 'controversial' as he was bored/tired/overworked/underappreciated/GCSE and A level pressures etc etc

OP I just mentioned this thread to my dh (maths lecturer). I thought his immediate response would be the same as mine. However, he was on your dd's side and thought the teacher sounded crap. He thinks GCSE science is dire (he knows the material well because of being on various education-related committees) and he likes hearing that kids rebel against it
However. When he was at school he had a huge attitude problem but he used to express his attitude problem by getting perfect marks in everything whilst appearing to do no work in the lessons and sitting at the back projecting dumb insolence. He thinks: all credit to your dd for finding boring stuff boring, but she mustn't cut off her nose to spite her face, ie she has to make sure she still does well at the boring stuff, in order to keep her options open

Is making lectures enjoyable the top priority for your dh, gardener? Or are there other priorities in education?

I must admit that whenever 'Is he bored?' is the first response to a parent posting about their child's poor behaviour in school, I have to grit my teeth and stifle the shudder.
Of course, it's better if every educational moment is vibrant, dynamic, entertaining and exciting...but sometimes it just isn't.

This makes me so cross

I am a Science teacher, and although we don't have these problems at my school, I really hated when I did supply work going into Science lessons where everyone was completely switched off.

One of the things that all teachers should inject into their lessons is a sense of 'awe and wonder' - this doesn't mean entertaining, but something that triggers curiosity.

The new KS3 Science specs do make life a bit difficult if you follow them religiously. I wonder if they are designed for non-Science specialists? A lot of activities and assessments are based on 'how science works', which can be extremely boring. There is not much emphasis on 'knowledge' which is the foundation of the hierarchy of learning. I ignore this omission by the QCA and teach plenty of facts about the topic, which Y7/8 pupils find absolutely fascinating.

My philosophy is that, if the topic allows, to do as many practicals as possible. And to make them fun.

We were 2nd to last appointment after the teacher had seen 28 other parents so he may have lost the will to live admittadely

BG where's your dh a lecturer I think my dd wwould be a first student in his lectures. Before the 10 min meeting ended with this conversation it had started with the teacher saying 'Your maths is outstanding'. Obviously no boring topics in that

Teacher was a numpty to say it out loud and without euphemisms though. Blokes are often less good at providing all the protective packaging that such a message requires in order to be well-received by the listener.

Pointy: he says: Making lectures inspirational for the interested is a top priority, but he doesn't expect them to be enjoyable for people who aren't willing to concentrate.
So I said: But isn't there ground that has to be covered?
And he said: The inspiration comes from the content - it means not shirking difficult bits if they're a key part of the content.

Does that answer the q?

Chemistry: A Volatile History is on BB4 now, I caught another one of these programmes and thought it was pretty good.

Goblin - I didn't need to question whether she was bored, she admitted that on her own free will

I did find it odd that he reiterated his statement that he has no idea why those grades were bad. They were bad (lower than her norm) because she didn't put any effort in because she was bored. I don't understand what he couldn't see.

Yes it is wrong that cause she was bored her grades suffered, but I've spoken to dd about that, and she understood it wasn't acceptable.

Coco - I'd better not say where he works given what he has said about GCSE Science. But most of his mates at different unis share his views/experiences - when they get together they have a good rant.
Glad your dd is good at maths. Whatever sort of science she does it will stand her in good stead.

She's wanting to do a degree in BEng Aeronautical Engineering.

Boring!Boring?

He must be one seriously stupid man to make science boring at that level.

However it is a sad fact of life that sooner or later she is going to encounter topics that she finds dull and is (shock horror) still going to have to do them.

exactly. Educating doesn't stem from the need to make it enjoyable for the people doing the learning.

The content should be a priority and any good teacher will try to deliver it in a way that will rouse interest and get people thinking.

An interesting point about targetting the interested people and not those not willing to concentrate. Doesn't quite work like that in schools. But anyway, isn't that what this thread is about? Is the teacher rubbish or is the student lacking interest and concentration?

Learning facts doesn't have to be boring!!!

orm, it is absolutely par for the course for yr 8s to say school work is boring. It was in my day and it still is.

Do we really feel so indignant when teenagers say school work is boring?

I do hate the fact that we appear to have taught our children that everything has to be fun, and if it's not, it's not worth doing.

There is stuff that just has to be done - and if children reach adulthood without realizing this, their first job is going to come as a huge shock!

Interesting pointydog.

In the meeting I saw it as - right you have to learn this stuff whether you like it or not, how can we make it memorable to you to remember it in the future.

I felt the teacher's response was it's not enjoyable therefore not memorable so just learn it.

And I was surprised at this response, as to me it should always be memorable. Even if it's finding those rhymes can't remember what they are called like for planets you remember the rhyme of first letters. Or order of kings in history can be said in rote. To me not interesting things, but memorable ways to remember.

Although can't remember the word for what they are called

I said to my dd that in my role at work there's one mundane task that i have to do that i don't enjoy. I've created a checklist that I tick off each section of the task. The satisfaction that this gives me when all ticked meaning the mundane task is over, for the second it takes to make the mark on the paper, helps me through it.

That's what I'm meaning, in my opinion there's 'fun' ways to make dull things enjoyable. Spoonful of sugar with the medicine and all that.

DD1 had similar views of most of her science up to A level - her teachers agreed that it was pretty boring, but that the particular syllabus (21st century science) wasn't aimed at students like her (i.e. v bright), and she just had to hang on in there till A level when they promised it woudld get harder better. Which it has thankfully. And we were all quite grateful to the teachers who confirmed that it was OK not to feel especially enthused by it.

On the other hand, she had an English teacher who started a Shakespear topic by saying "you won't enjoy any of this, it's deadly dull" and carried on for the rest of the term ensuring that they all did find it incredibly dull. A student feedback form took care of that one though, and the particular teacher hasn't had a top set since to our knowledge .