Should Private School Pupils be eligible for Grammar Schools?

[INeedWine]

Doesn't it go against the whole principle of offering a good education to children who couldn't otherwise afford it?

MintyCane, that chat thread was totally tongue in cheek. Its just that it does seem acceptable to refer to posh snobs at private schools, but heaven forbid anyone should use slightly contentious words to describe a particular element that you get in some state schools.

What proportion of grammar school pupils do go to private primary schools first though? Plenty of children from my dcs private schools sit the tests for the Sutton or Bromley grammars but very few actually seem to go. Seems to be the case that if you're good enough to pass then you've probably also got a scholarship to an independent school with better facilities.

Well it'll be fun at the Sutton Grammar Test on Saturday....approx 2000 boys and parents fighting over 140 places.

Actually, I think I might feel guilty if I took up a good state place, that a child with no other options might otherwise have.

But sadly, the reality of grammar schools is that the middle classes are already dominating the rolls. Ditto, other excellent state schools.
You'll find a very common refrain on MN which is...we could afford private ( actually, we're so rich we sprinkle diamond dust on our frosties) but we choose to use state.
Then said person will describe the schools facitities as rivalling Harvard.

And they just don't see the double standard.

Since when was a state grammar school only for children whose parents can't afford to pay?

litchick - you pay because you would feel guilty taking a state place

we pay because that was what we decided to do for our kids primary education.

i fully intend to go for the grammar school option at 11 (if they still exist by then) - i will have no qualms about this as it will still be in pursuit of getting the best education for my children.

if primary schools in grammar areas are not preparing kids for the 11+ then i agree that is unfari - but it is a legacy of our very confused education system.

playing the system is part of life. no way to prevent it happening.

gladders - we pay for a host of reasons, not least because it's a fantastic school and because we can.

However, I do realise how ridiculously lucky my DCs are and would, I think, feel guilty if I took a good state place.
But I accept that's just me being daft.
And of course, the idea that in DCs place would be bright but poor children, is equally daft.= given the state of the education game in this country.

deaddei - really
Good luck!!!!!!!

sorry litchick think i got out of the wrong side of bed this morning

we are paying for a host of reasons as well. but feeling that we need to release a state place for somene more deserving just isn't one of them.

think we're basically singing from the same song sheet though....

"MintyCane, that chat thread was totally tongue in cheek. Its just that it does seem acceptable to refer to posh snobs at private schools, but heaven forbid anyone should use slightly contentious words to describe a particular element that you get in some state schools."

I know it was tongue in cheek. So are many of the things that the other side say.

"particular element" - what do you mean, I wonder ?

I am off to sprinkle some diamond dust on my cornflakes.

Abolish grammars and private schools, Problem solved.

Of course they should be eligible. I personally am not a fan of selective education but I certainly don't think children who happen to have spent the early part of their education in a private school should be prevented from having the state education they are entitled to.

In areas where there is a grammar school system that state education involves taking a test and competing for a place, the idea being that the smartest children will get in and the rest go to whatever secondary modern (or whatever they are called now) there is in the area. It doesn't make any sense that children who are moving from private to state education should be prevented from attending a state school just because they've previously paid for their education.

State education is for everyone, not just people who can't afford private education.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone who contributes a lot more than average tax to the economy choosing to use a state school over a private school, even though they could comfortably afford the latter. On the contrary.

I don't have a problem with that if the LEA will give me the £5000 per annum they would be spending on my ds if he went to state school. While their at it they could also give me access to the LEA Ed Psych rather than telling me I have to pay because ds is at private school.

they're not their [pedant]

MollieO yes I agree thats exactly where it gets unfair isnt it ?

Mollie - not fair at all!!! am completely at this - what is their logic????

So it seems everyone wants to get their DCs into a good Grammar school (me included if there were any locally!), perhaps we should have more of them......

MollieO - Mine are at a state school school and I've had to pay for 2 private Ed Psych reports just to get things moving so don't feel it's just private parents who are treated that way.

Grammars are fantastic for those that get in. Top 25%? But what about the majority. They can't go to a comprehensive because they cannot exist alongside GS. I suppose DC could go to comp in neighbouring LEA.
I'm almost certain 3 of mine would have made the grade. I am fairly certain their 3 brothers would not because of their dyslexia.

Fortunately I live in a non grammar area where very few go private. Such areas do exist and the schools are real comprehensives not secondary mods.

Have not read all the thread as I am on a post and dash but I know my local grammar gives priority to state kids.

If I were to send dd to a grammar, which I would much rather not do, I woudl feel quite guilty knowing I could afford private fees and therefore would be taking a place that another child could have.

But I would not go private and am very unlikely to use the grammar so it is a moot point.

Alcatraz not everyone wants their children to get into a grammar, I teach classes of very bright children whose parents actively choose not to send their children to the grammar.

no

love hully's answer

I just wish our local Grammars had smaller / any catchment areas. Because they are the only ones for miles, kids travel by train etc for an hour + each way to get there - therby increasing the competition enormously.

I could not afford Private, but would have chosen Private if I could (they had a taste with a fab nursery ).

Depends where you live, Morosky, before you can say that.The alternative needs to be just as attractive - which it evidently is in your case - otherwise principles get swallowed when it's your own child's education at stake.

The grammar schools round here are massively oversubscribed depite the existence of some good comprehensives. They've obviously got something that people want.

Well yes and no campion. I teach in a very good state school, but my dd won't get a place there. But yes it does depend on where you live as to be honest I am not that over impressed with our local grammars. Infact I was a fan of grammar schools until I moved into a grammar school area. And yes those parents who have chosen not to apply or take a place at the grammar have done so knowing they have a place at a good state school.

I don't doubt that grammar schools offer some, maybe even many parents something they want, but not all.