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Secondary education

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Original poster

Grrrrr sorry this is a silent vent about ds who is 'undecided' re university - bit late!

87 replies

NotanOtter · 25/08/2009 20:28

just offloading really

ds seems to want me to pick his course. Up until three weeks ago ( but only for about 12 months prior IYSWIM) ds wanted to do medicine at university

Then he waxed and waned a little

Then he was in the National youth Theatre over summer and came back all fired up to be an actor

Then started making 'jokes' about not doing medicine

DP willing to just let it all lie but i wont and start questionning if its right for him...cue daily changing of mind

Cue me starting to stress over unwritten personal statement

.....him getting moody now and saying 'no one has done it' and still no nearer WHAT exactly he does want to study

Anyone been here and offer me sound advice ...

OP posts:
madeupsurname · 25/08/2009 21:59

Maybe he is just having a bit of a wobble? It sounds like he has always been very successful and self-motivated, maybe he's now thinking 'oh cripes, what if I don't get in?'

With regard to the colleges - the most important thing imo is that he is in a college with like-minded people. I only know about Oxford, but the colleges there draw from very different constituencies - some are very sporty, some are more public school than others, some are known as 'northern', others have a leftish reputation.

Obviously finding out which one is the right one can be a bit tricky. Can the school put him in touch with former pupils who are now at Cambridge?

The alternative prospectus is worth a look, and perhaps some more internet research would throw up more info.

Original poster
NotanOtter · 25/08/2009 22:00

we had been told that only some colleges pooled is this true?

OP posts:
frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA · 25/08/2009 22:00

Also when candidates come from pool colleges know they're not the first choice and the candidates are pooled because they're GOOD candidates, but not for that particular college.

Whether you end up liking the college is a bit hit and miss but it's a basic thing to try and get right when you apply. Sure pooling works for candidates every year but you only get into pooling if you do well in your first interview.

Original poster
NotanOtter · 25/08/2009 22:02

i hope so madeupsurname i do hope it is just a wobble

millliways the A* will be in next year so i am hoping that may go some way to academically distinguish the more able -as so many get a's now

OP posts:
madeupsurname · 25/08/2009 22:03

x-posts with lots of people there

If he does end up having a gap year, as a university tutor I'd definitely encourage him to spend all or most of it working. I see a huge difference between students who've spent the year mostly on the conventional gap year trail and the people who've worked hard in a 'normal' job. The latter tend to have learnt good work habits and independence, and appreciate their course a lot more.

LadyMuck · 25/08/2009 22:05

I thought that Oxbridge were going to ignore A this year (ie A predictions will be ignored), or do you mean for an application after his A levels?

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA · 25/08/2009 22:05

I'm with madeupsurname on the job front. It also comes across favourably whilst trying to get jobs whilst at uni (sad but true that student finance won't cover everything you need) and afterwards.

Fayrazzled · 25/08/2009 22:07

Pooled candidates stand a better chance because effectively they've already been given the nod by another don as "suitable for the university but not quite right for this college". They're a hurdle further on than the open application candidates.

I can only tell you what my Director of Studies view was- that if you could get 3,4,5 As at A-level, then you had the academic ability to get a 2.1 at cambridge.

I totally agree that doing your research and trying to stand out from the crowd is a Good Thing. However, for schools that don't have a history of sending kids to Oxbridge, it can be very difficult for a student to understand what this means in practice.

I still think the admissions system at Oxbridge is pretty much a lottery and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Otherwise, why would so many able candidates be turned down each year? Many of those candidates could shine given a chance but there just aren't the places.

madeupsurname · 25/08/2009 22:08

I suspect the % getting A*s will still be pretty high, particularly amongst Oxbridge candidates.

As Frakkin says, the key is to show your interest and originality - both in your personal statement and at interview.

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA · 25/08/2009 22:10

It is a lottery, anyone who's applied or knows anyone who's applied knows that. But you have to buy a ticket and fill the ticket in first to win the lottery. You need to apply and tick all the boxes on the application to get in. And then you might not win, you might not get in, but you've given yourself the best chance possible and there's nothing to be ashamed of in that.

But this is getting very OT!

madeupsurname · 25/08/2009 22:12

Fayrazzled, in my experience of admissions, the really fantastic candidates stand out a mile, as do the weaker ones.

There is then a much larger pool of possibles. There IS an element of lottery, especially for universities who don't interview. But you can make your way from possible to probable with a strong personal statement.

As someone said higher up the thread, there is advice and information out there, even for kids whose schools aren't so Oxbridge-attuned. The colleges and admissions offices should be happy to advise on what to put in a personal statement - in fact, they will give much better advice than most schools!

Fayrazzled · 25/08/2009 22:13

I think it's also important to remember that Oxbridge really isn't the be all and end all. It's easy for me to say that because I had the privilege of going, but 12 years on, while I remember my time very fondly and with great pride, it hasn't marked my life for ever more.

Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers" on what makes people successful? It is very fascinating- see the chapter on Nobel prize winners and where they did their undergrad degrees.

LadyMuck · 25/08/2009 22:15

NAO - probably not today's reading but here is some info on pooling.

Original poster
NotanOtter · 25/08/2009 22:21

all cambridge offers are A*AA this year

OP posts:
Milliways · 25/08/2009 22:21

They have always had the A* equivalents as they get all the UMS marks from AS levels. DD was grilled on why one of her modules was only a "scraped A".

However, I really agree that if he DOES want medicine, then Oxbridge is def NOT the best place (according to all the GPs I work with).

Fayrazzled · 25/08/2009 22:34

Milliways- AFAIK, Oxbridge does top the league tables for Medicine at the pre-clinical stage (at Cambridge a BA was conferred at this stage). I know a lot of my contemporaries who read medicine then went on to either London or Edinburgh for their clinical training and to complete their BM BS (or whatever designation is preferred by the particular institution).

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA · 25/08/2009 22:39

League tables aren't everything though. Oxbridge tops the tables for Music but Birmingham, Cardiff, London and Manchester have conservatoires which means you get a much higher standard of practical tuition and people in the 'industry' appreciate that.

Interesting fact re: open applications - just chatted to DH2B. He applied open, sent to Oriel and was accepted there. And then rejected them for an overseas uni. He didn't feel disadvantaged (but then he wouldn't!).

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA · 25/08/2009 22:47

Actually DH2B just read that and says he DID feel disadvantaged: for doing the IB instead of A-levels. But he likes feeling disadvantaged "because it makes it all the better" when he succeeds.

And he now wants to know why I'm quoting him

Original poster
NotanOtter · 25/08/2009 22:49

the advice on here has been so helpful tonight i am very very grateful for your time and input

have been looking through holiday snaps just now and decided last three can live by the coast and be artists

much easier for me!

will see what tomorrow brings and keep you all posted!

OP posts:
Claire2301 · 25/08/2009 23:02

Haven't read all of this thread however I work at a further education college and from September - November we have students scratching their heads say in, day out. Best advice I can give is book him an appointment with the connextions adviser (all sixth forms have one) they will be able to talk through and ask your son the right questions. I believe parents are welcomed at these meetings if you would like to go.

Hope this helps.

mumeeee · 25/08/2009 23:42

Back off a litle, He will get help at school or college (which ever he attends) with his personal statement and general university application stuff when he goes back in September. I know that is what happend with both DD1 and DD2. If he wants to do a medicine degree he will have to apply by October. The same applies if he wants to go to Oxford or Cambridge. Otherwise He has unti January to get his application in.

Quattrocento · 25/08/2009 23:54

I think it would be a good idea not to do or say anything tbh. Should be up to him.

TotallyUnheardOf · 26/08/2009 00:51

Is he at a state school, NAO?

It may be a non-starter, as it's not Oxbridge, but I've just been told about a course (I think it's called Clinical Sciences) at Bradford (OK, OK, I know... but bear with me...) which is aimed at students from state schools specifically. They interview all candidates on a real ward, and the decision of whether or not to offer a place is based very much on communication skills and how they are with patients. The aim is to recruit a generation of doctors who are not just good at science, but also great communicators. (I was thinking of this because of the acting thing...) The top 1/3 of the cohort at the end of Year 1 transfer into Year 2 of Leeds Medical School. The bottom 2/3 continue and get a degree in Clinical Whatever-it-is from Bradford. This is all I know, but it sounds an interesting prospect for someone who's attracted to medicine but not sure....

PixiNanny · 26/08/2009 01:01

All you can do is be supportive of whatever decision he ends up making. My parents were somewhat annoyed but supportive when I ended up staying in uni locally (boyfriend issues) and then dropped out that Christmas! I'm now thousands in debt and the student loans demanding £1800 that I 'stole' from them immediately. It's troublesome and I wish that I had never gone tbh! I chose a childcare course that was up to 8yos, and I prefer working with older children and young people, not little kids!

It sounds like he does need a gap year or some time to think really, especially if his A Levels are in completely different subjects to what he decides upon! Why this country puts so much pressure on choosing your future at stupidly young ages is beyond me!

senua · 26/08/2009 10:15

Has he ever had careers advice? Has he sat down with Fast Tomato or cascaid/kudos? I prefer the latter one because it looks at personality, not merely academic capabilities.

I agree with others that the fire and determination has to come from him but the school may not see it that way. Be wary of them trying to steer their star pupil in ways to suit their agenda.

You must remember that it is hard being Gifted. I'm being serious, actually. I had no problem deciding my degree subject because I was only good at one thing. But how do you decide when you are good at anything you turn your hand to ...