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Secondary education

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Original poster

teachers swearing at class!

56 replies

jetcat32 · 30/04/2009 07:53

hi, i am looking for opinions please, as not sure if i over-reacting due to my own values.

A couple of days ago DD1 came home from school quite upset that teacher had swore at tthem (she is mild SEN as has very strong ffeelings about swearing). Apparantly nnearly the whole cclass had been misbehaving, and they had all been put on detention (another thing which upsets DD, as she cant understand why has to be punished - ddespite me trying to explain to her!) and the teacher shouted at them that they were p*ing her off! I dont agree with swearing aat all, but i also understand that teachers hhave a stressful job, esp is class are playing up, so thought i would ask for opinions.

same thing yesterday. different teacher, "bloody hell" etc and things along those lines - not even sure if that is swearing these days - i am just harking back to my very strict church upbringing lol!

OP posts:
snorkle · 30/04/2009 12:44

I feel that children will be exposed to bad language eventually, so haven't been too upset about occasional bad language from staff. But, one teacher called the class cretins which I really didn't like (same teacher also called ds an egghead - I feel he can't have it both ways & shouldn't have it either). My point here is that non swear words can be equally or more offensive than swearing sometimes.

In the OPs case though, & with the SN issue I think a quiet word with the school wouldn't be amiss.

Tortington · 30/04/2009 12:44

teachers are professionals.

and whilst bloody hell mightn't be swearing, i would expect them to act professionally.

ofcourse 'you are pissing me off' is not acceptable.

IMO, if a teacher canot cope, they should recieve further training or find another profession

if i couldn't cope at my job, as a professional, i would ask for further training - or iw ould look for another place of work.

marmitebabe · 30/04/2009 13:42

I would also consider it unacceptable and think you should complain to the head (assuming they are not suspended aswell!).

I understand teachers are humans too and have bad days like the rest of us and they mostly do a terrific job. However I manage not to swear in front of my children, they learn by example after all, so I think teachers should not swear in front of them either.

BTW bloody hell is swearing in our house, as is you are pissing me off........

Original poster
jetcat32 · 30/04/2009 13:58

many thanks for all your opinions - it was good to chew things over

i have decided to write an informal letter to head, and leave it with her. I know i will probably get the option of making a formal complaint to governors, but don't feel that is necessary at the moment.

morningpaper - i have actually questioned the wisdom of letting her spend all her breaks in the library, and found out that prior to this, she would stand facing the wall in a corridor near to the teachers room, the only place she felt 'safe' (her words). Her class teacher tells me that there are always other kids in the library, but i know that DD won't be mixing with them (she never does!)

I am pushing the school to try and help her with this, but it is like wading through treacle at the moment!

OP posts:
stripytroubletrousers · 05/05/2009 17:19

I've come late to this. I was really horrified at shinyshoes post about a teacher calling students "faggots" and would certainly be complaining about that. Secondary school is an isolating enough experience for children who feel different without the adults employed to educate them inferring that insults like "faggot" are acceptable!

The swearing is unacceptable for the very reason you find it so - it is upsetting to many people. I'm a secondary teacher and would not swear, though I accept that stress can get the better of all of us at times. Your course of action sounds reasonable.

I was also posting as a mum with a DD who sounds very similar to yours. I sympathise with the idea she tells off other children - mine has always been the same. She's going to secondary school this year and I'm dreading the bullying really starting up. I am surprised that no provisions have been made to help your DD at break times. I would be asking the Special Needs Co-ordinator at the school if anything could be done to make them an easier time for your DD, and see if they can offer her an alternative to spending all of her time in the library. Does she get any support with her social interaction?

stripytroubletrousers · 05/05/2009 17:27

Oh, I see that she is. I still think it would be worth a meeting with the SENCO to see if school could offer her some provision at breaks. IMO if they knew that your DD was spending her breaks facing a wall as it was the only place that she felt safe, someone should have intervened, whether it was the SENCO or her head of year. We're also just starting the assessment process with our DD - best of luck to you with it .

twinsetandpearls · 06/05/2009 19:56

I have known teachers sacked for swearing at a class. I have taught in very very tough schools where I have been pushed to my limits. But you are paid to remain in control. I have muttered under my breath in a corner concealing my words behind a text book but never out loud to a class. I would complain as it suggests the teacher has lost control and needs support or perhaps disciplinary measures need to be taken.

If I knew a teacher said faggott in front of my child I would not rest until the teacher had been sacked.

Bomper · 07/05/2009 18:48

I went to a rough school, and always remember a Geography teacher saying 'I'm not going to start until those wankers at the back stop talking' Am still 20 odd years later!!

nkf · 07/05/2009 18:51

It's not on. That said, I know a brilliant teacher who admits that in his first year he swore (the F word) at a class. It could indicate an unprofessional teacher or it could indicate someone having a seriouisy bad day and losing it briefly.

Original poster
jetcat32 · 08/05/2009 08:59

thanks all. I have wrote a letter to the head, sent it in the end of last week, but havent had a response yet - is that normal?

I also think i am going to have to bite the bullet and go and see the senco, as she doesnt seem to getting sorted at all - in fact it is worse, as the other kids have all settled in now and know their way around etc. but mine is still getting lost as she won't ask for help! It breaks my heart to see her when she comes out of school (i pick her up occasionally) as she is always last (to avoid the crowds) and always head down and on her own!

To the teachers among you - what realistically could i ask school to do? I dont want her banning from the library, as she would be distraught, but at the same time, she needs to mix more

OP posts:
feralgirl · 08/05/2009 17:46

I'm a secondary teacher and I would never swear in front of my class. I think that "bloody hell" and "pissing me off" are totally unacceptable and "faggots" is probably a disciplinary issue.

I have a horrendous potty mouth in real life but my teaching persona is a paragon of political correctness. There is a time and a place for swearing and teachers are there to set an example to their students. As an English teacher I think part of my job is to prepare kids for their careers by showing kids that they can express themselves in socially acceptable ways.

I would write to the head and send a copy to the governors.

Original poster
jetcat32 · 11/05/2009 19:04

just as an update - head rang today. said she had spoken with teachers concerned, and told them it was not acceptable. Not a formal written warning - the step below that - which i am happy with. So long as it doesnt happen again!

OP posts:
mommakaz · 28/05/2009 10:04

jetcat32 - I was a primary school teacher and I definitely think you should see the SENCO and get her referred to the educational psychologist for assessment. Traits such as everything is black and white, rigid beliefs, lack of social skills, difficulty mixing etc. can be indicators of Aspergers Syndrome.

zeke · 11/06/2009 23:40

Not good at all. However, I would not immediately jump in and complain.
The teacher herself was probably really annoyed with herself afterwards for losing her temper like that and letting those words slip out.
If it happens again I would actually write the teacher herself a short letter/email (not rude/nasty just bringing it to her attention - and not tell dc). If that failed then would be the time to contact a more senior member of staff with an offical complaint with dates etc.

katiestar · 12/06/2009 17:49

Well according to the dictionary neither bloody nor hell is a swear word.Blasphemy maybe ?
Bloody is a word used for emphasis I thought , I would certainly not consider it swearing

tethersend · 14/08/2009 14:26

I am a secondary teacher- this is not the first time I have heard or seen this! Personally, I would be more concerned about the whole class being punished; it seems to be standard practice in some schools, and is totally counter-productive as a behaviour strategy. Where is the incentive to behave appropriately if you get detention anyway?! In my experience, the most effective strategies involve singling out the ones who have behaved well, or 'less badly' than the others, and making a big deal out of how well they have done, heaping on the praise or calling home. It is NEVER the whole class who behaves badly, even though it may seem like it to the teacher. I would have a quiet word with the head about this...
I would also take this as a golden opportunity to explain to your daughter about swearing in context, and doing some work with her about what the consequences of swearing are. I have worked with SEN students who had no idea about the 'hierarchy' of swear words, and thought that the word 'bloody' was more offensive than the word 'c**t'. I think to give the impression that all swearing is 'bad' can be misleading and can impede social interaction with peers if she tells them off for swearing constantly. She will probably still hate swearing, and choose not to do it (a credit to your parenting!) but it may help for her to understand when and why some people do...

tethersend · 14/08/2009 16:26

As far as the mixing goes, I agree with mommakaz- I would ask to meet with SENCO, as there are definitely signs of ASD/Aspergers that the school should follow up. She may not have ASD, but the school should help her mixing with others by arranging support at break/lunchtimes. Are there any lunchtime clubs she could join? Smaller groups would be less intimidating. Perhaps they could organise a 'buddy' (another student) for her to help her socialise and spend 10-15 mins at lunchtime with her, the rest of the time she can spend as she likes (ie in the library). This may build up her confidence gradually, rather than throwing her in there with the big crowds.

Original poster
jetcat32 · 23/08/2009 18:56

thanks tether, i appreciate your comments

Re the swearing - she knows people swear - i do on the odd occasion, she has heard swearing on the tele etc. I make no comment, yet she still becomes very indignant (trying to think of the right word there!). I have explained that she will never make friends if she simply goes and tells them off all the time - but she still doesnt 'get it'. She thinks she is right, and that is that!

Going back to school in a couple of weeks - we now have a definite diagnosis of dyspraxia, with the consultant saying at that point he wasnt sure whether her other issues were part of the dyspraxia, or were due to being on the Autistic spectrum - he is recommending an assessment by his multi-disc team. Obviously this isnt going to get done before she goes back in year 8, so not too sure on what to say to school. She is being referred to OT as well - i guess i should be asking for meeting with SENCO?

OP posts:
skidoodle · 23/08/2009 19:10

Bloody hell is swearing now?

You people are nuts.

Imagine writing a letter about a teacher swearing in secondary school!

Talk about getting worked up over the wrong things.

Is this a good teacher? Does your daughter learn from her? Does she enjoy the subject in question?

Teachers are not paid to be in control, they are paid to teach. Part of teaching is knowing (and learning) how to control a class effectively and not lose your rag, but that is not the point of being there.

CantThinkofFunnyName · 23/08/2009 19:19

I think the behaviour of the teachers was completely unacceptable. My DH and I have potty mouths in RL but have a huge line drawn about swearing in front of the children - including bloody hell, which, skidoodle is indeed swearing and has been certainly since I was a child.

I am often shocked at how many children use this phrase because the parents seem to have got so used to it and think it is acceptable language. For teachers to swear whilst doing their job is completely ridiculous - it shows a lack of vocabulary - surely something they should be teaching to the children in the first place.

Agree with the teacher posts on here about complaining.

Goblinchild · 23/08/2009 19:26

One of the problems with 'Bloody Hell' is that it's one of Ron Weasley's exclamations and has been occurring in primary playgrounds for a while.
Bloody HP.

PitysSake · 23/08/2009 19:27

totally not ok
i would never say crap or oh god in a classroom

CantThinkofFunnyName · 23/08/2009 19:59

Agree PitysSake - Crap, Fart, Prat - all of those are swear words! I have stepchildren and am constantly telling them off for their language - they think its hilarious. I know some of it may be a bit "victorian" but really, I think our children ought to know what's socially acceptable language and what language is best reserved for playground, amongst good friends, out of earshot of grown-ups etc!.

skidoodle · 23/08/2009 20:22

Lmao at teaching children that loads of everyday words in English are BAD

I'd take a swearing teacher over one who bought into this kind of stultifying language strangulation.

Imagine a teacher in secondary school refusing to use the word "fart" pmsl

PitysSake · 23/08/2009 20:23

yes thats me
i dont say fart oin front of kids
its just not a word i need to use!