What do you think is the ideal secondary school uniform?

[roisin]

Our school is in quite a difficult area and has a shirt/tie uniform, which I loathe. At any one time only about 5-10% of the students will be wearing it properly, and most of the rest look very scruffy with the tie so loose/low you can't even see it.

Even with yr7s it's a real struggle to get them to sort out their ties properly at the beginning of a lesson. (A few teachers bother, not many, and most give up the fight by the end of yr7.)

My opinion is it would be better not to have collars/ties if you're not going to insist on them being worn properly.

So what would be a better alternative?

At dd's school they wear ordinary blue shirts, black trousers or skirts and a sweatshirt with the school's logo. Great as it is not v expensive and tends to look ok whatever they do to it. Also, more environmentally friendly as it does not need dry-cleaning.

School has a reputation for good behaviour; have noticed that the local schools with behaviour problems are a lot stricter in their dress code. Presumably they think blazer and tie will automatically lead to better behaviour; doesn't seem to be working though.

Mine wear polo shirts and sweatshirts and I like it. It may not be conventionally 'smart' but it's practical and comfortable and as Roisin pointed out it's no more scruffy than uniforms which aren't worn 'properly'.

I prefer polo shirts and sweatshirts. I hate the way they wear ties, and shirts that aren't tucked in.

I think blazers look crap esp cheap shiney ones worn with hanging off tie and scruffy shirt.

Better off with school jumper and shirt or even polo shirt. I prefer knitted jumpers to sweatshirts tho.

My dd's school used to have sweatshirts and the girls hated it, particularly the younger ones, because they said they looked as if they were still at primary school.

They now have navy blue V necked cotton sweaters with a very small logo, white shirts with revere collars and black skirts or trousers.It's comfortable, reasonably smart, easy to wash and they like it.

I hate blazers and shirts and ties, particularly for girls (blazers are a really bad look for burgeoning bosoms and I am completely baffled by the tie thing for girls!)

The school I teach at has just switched from polo shirt, jumper with badge and black trousers/skirt to full blazer tie ensemble, I hate it, much prefer the old style, although they did look very scruffy before. And I think that's the problem for a lot of schools; while they have a more casual style they don't bother enforcing it, and then they end up switching to a very formal uniform when instead it would be better to have a more comfortable, practical outfit but insist on kids wearing it properly.

Interesting question. My son wears a school logo polo shirt and a school logo sweatshirt. Obviously he wears trousers (!) but so do all the girls too although they are allowed to wear skirts.

They all look a complete sloppy mess IMO. I yearned for my children to go to a school with a proper shirt, tie and blazer, and nice pleated skirts for the girls, as I think that dressing smartly helps to instill discipline and pride in children, but reading the comments about ties not being worn properly etc has made me realise that perhaps my son's school has the right idea after all.

Although, wherever you go, the children make variations out of their uniform. In my son's school you have to wear the polo shirt collar inside the sweatshirt (which looks awful) or you are teased/bullied? actually, I don't know what happens, but ds1 will not wear the collar out, no matter how many times I fiddle with it!

The did a pretty extensive consultation at dd's school - I think the Head wanted to introduce blazers and ties, but the parents and girls voted against. They narrowed it down to 5 choices, then had a fashion show - with some of the 6th form people making really funky versions as well. They had huge fun, and felt very involved in the choice.

One thing the school is very strict about it shoes - there was a massive clamp down at the beginning of this year and that's worked too. No more massive platforms and ballet pumps!

Ds1 and ds2 used to go to High schools that had strict uniform policies - shirt, tie, blazer and black trousers. I have to admit that I liked this, feeling that the strictness of the uniform was part of a greater overall strictness about behaviour that contributed to good behaviour, and to the teachers being able to teach instead of having to do riot control.

Now we've moved, the boys have a choice to wear a blazer, but can wear a v-necked black jumper, or a zip-up sweatshirt or fleece, as long as it's not a hoodie - and it's so much more practical! In the past, dh has managed to ruin £40-worth of blazer by trying to iron it dry after sponging a stain off - now when their top gets dirty, it just goes in the wash, and if it does get ruined or outgrown, replacements are far cheaper!!

Oh - and behaviour seems just as good at their new school, and it gets really good academic results, so I can only assume that the teachers are doing plenty of teaching!

What really used to annoy me about the boys' previous schools, was the strictness of the PE kit - which could only be bought from the schools or a very small number of selected suppliers, and which cost a fortune - especially as you had to have indoor and outdoor and rugby kit!!

Seeker - I had to google to see what a revere collar was
That's what we had at my secondary school (for the girls obviously).

If you do that for the girls though, I'm not sure what you do for the boys?

Our uniform is white shirt, tie, and dark green V-neck jumper/sweatshirt thing.

In summer they can choose to wear a dark green polo shirt: the polos look massively smarter than the winter uniform. But this may be because they aren't worn long enough to look tatty and scruffy.

all uniforms, dress codes etc are pointless if not enforced.
There are two girls schools near us, both say no make up...but you can spot the school that enforces it and the one that doesn't!

My dds uniform is strict, blouse and tie and jumper and blazer, green long kilt and white tights they now give the girls clip on ties, so that they cant make them fat, they dont have to were a the blazer so from yr 8 they dont seem to wear any coat at all, my girls hate the uniform and it quite expensive, but I do like the fact that the skirt has to be below the knee, I hate seeing school girls in very short skirts specially with over the knee socks it just seems very wrong for school.

Can I give you a cunning way to 'police' school unifor that stops them doing the old 'Do it up, walk away, undo it again' thing?

Works a real treat.

Give every child a named demerit card.

12 lines on each card.

Every time the kid has to be told to sort the uniform, the teacher signs the card.

12 demerits gets them an ASDT.

the first time we did this we held the firt ASDT in the GYM. Then the hall, then a classroom.

Uniform was worn as it should have been, and the behvious in the school improved. They got a new card every half term. Unmarked cards went into a prize draw with book tokens, HMV vouchers as prizes.

Carrot and stick

Worked a dream

My oldest has a rather smart V-necked grey sweatshirt (I think grey marl is a v sensible colour for scruffy 12-yr-olds).

It's a bizarrely square shape, though, and goes straight down no stretchy ribbing on the bottom edge so my beanpole child does look a bit like a peasant in a smock.

If you enforce a uniform, children will look to show their individuality through their ties. It's a fact.

dd1's school has a uniform of black and white. Which I think would work very well indeed, except they have ties as well.

"If you enforce a uniform, children will look to show their individuality through their ties. It's a fact." And shoes, and skirts/trousers/tops (unless you're forced to buy THAT ONE from THAT shop there will always be a difference).
My dd went to a primary with no uniform and is now at a secondary with no uniform. Can't say I'm sorry about it. When I was poor I'd buy her a set of three pairs of leggings from a catalogue which inevitably were in three difference colours. Therefore suitable for a school with no uniform.
Now at secondary school, and locals say they can always tell the girls from that school because they are always so well turned out.
It's a very popular school (except with those parents who are peverse enough to only want a school with a uniform and don't care how good the school is) and doesn't seem to have much in the way of discipline problems. Same went for the primary. Current head says she disputes the idea there's any connection. And it gives some teachers something to throw their weight around about. I would prefer they concentrate on teaching rather than worrying about whether the tie's on properly. But that's just me.

On the subject of perversity, I am looking at 2 different but good secondary schools for DS. One has a very smart blazer and tie uniform, red jumper and tie, nice 'trad' school badge. The other is so sloppy, it's not funny! Pale blue polo shirts and invariably washed out, pilled navy sweatshirts with a trendy 'logo'. School one is in a well to do town but encompasses a large social housing estate; school 2 is in the heartlands of middle-class Tory England!

Trouble is, my decision is almost swayed negatively by that hideous uniform! The Head says it's something about their informal but focused approach to learning, this slapdash uniform BUT he also conceded the DC there are all from very middle class, liberal high achieving homes...

Our nearest secondary has a new Head and also what could be a smart uniform. She. apparently is clamping down big time on fat ties and short skirts. The DCs have to have 7 diagonal stripes of tie showing!! It is part of her discipline drive, and I believe studies have been done linking rigid uniform with discipline BUT perhaps in certain 'social' circumstances? There's possibly a reason why these new Academies in deprived areas have such private school-like uniforms!

DD's current school is grey trousers and sweatshirts (black in yrs 10 & 11)with white polo shirts. They did have to wear ties but that changed 4 years ago as staff said they were spending too much time enforcing uniform. The polo shirts always look grey and washed out.

DD2 may be moving to a new school soon. The uniform is blazers, shirts with ties, and a regulation skirt. The regulation skirt will certainly make life easier and when worn properly the uniform is very smart.

"If you enforce a uniform, children will look to show their individuality through their ties. It's a fact."

In my experince, they tend to show their individuality by fastening their tie the same way as every other child .

Indeed! My experience of polo shirts and sweatshirts is they ALWAYS look manky after a year, whereas the Juniors white shirt (M&S!) and tie combo look as fresh as the day they were bought, upto 2 1/3 years ago! And the school supplied badged (polyester) V neck jumper has fared FAR better than the Infants pilled, shiny, unravelled-sleeved sweatshirt ever did!

DCs should demonstrate their creativity through their art, essays and oratory, oblique mathematical deductions and obtuse scientific observation, not their stupid tie! If THAT'S the only outlet they feel they have for 'individualism either they seriously lack imagination of their school is rubbish!

Nearly all state schools in our city have polo shirts and sweatshirts, which look baggy and manky and horrid. They seem to be enforced in order to make every kid look as down-at-heel as those who genuinely are. It's like a bloody Communist state.

The only exceptions are the goddy place, which has a reasonably nice jumper-shirt-tie combo, and the Sinister Academies which have blazers and ties and manage to make the kids look like part of some deeply devious masterplan.