Re: My daughter swimming and bullying

[formidablelady]

I have posted this comment as I appear to be unable to edit my original thread and most people don't read all of it.

I just wanted to say that I been in the nursing profession for 20 years and I am amazed by how a lot of people have responded to my thread. It is truly like reading something from the 1950?s.

If one of my patients came to me with a complaint no matter how trivial or ?stupid? I thought it was I would do my level best to help resolve it as it obviously wasn?t trivial or stupid to them. In fact we welcome comments, that is how change is affected. Obviously there are times when we cannot deliver everything the patient wants but we try to come to a compromise. If the patient still isn?t happy we tell them the process they have to follow if they want to take this further.

I find this playground attitude of some of the posters who have been name calling and comments that I will be the talk of the staffroom surreal. Is it unrealistic to have confidence that my daughters teachers are more professional than that!

I also sincerely hope that the people who are trivialising bullying and name calling do not work with children.

I would prefer my daughter not to do swimming but if there is no compromise then she will be forced to do it. I still don?t agree with the lack of choice though when it is making her so unhappy and think it should be an option only. She is already good at swimming and has no plans to incorporate it into her career. She is very good at most other sports. Why can't she do one of those if possible.

I am not a teacher but if half my class sat out each week I would see that as a big problem and I would be talking to parents and pupils to seek a solution not have the attitude ?its tough?. After all I have read somewhere in some government document that P.E. should be about confidence building, self esteem and enjoyment. It is failing on all three. No child will learn anything if they are mentally that affected. Why not give the girls the option to do sport they enjoy.

I am deeply disappointed that no one mentioned the word compromise and disturbing that people felt I should tell her she must do it and that is that. I think it is important talk to the teacher about something that is having such a profound effect on my childs mental well being. I find it all very strange indeed??.

I feel really let down by this group which I came to for advice not ridicule. I appreciate everyone has their opinion and that most seem opposed to mine however there are ways of voicing them without being nasty.

I will continue to support my daughter and work as best I can with the school to find a resolution. I will try out some of the suggestions made and hope that the school has a more modern approach to this issue.

Crikey.

I didn't read your original thread I'm afraid.

though important to note, you are not anybody's patient so can't really expect posters to treat you professionally.

What was it all about then? You wanted her to stop swimming because she hated it? And everyone said 'tsk will be character building. We all have to do things we hate' ?

did you not read my posts formidablelady?

I thought I'd made some constructive comments - definitely not nasty - which you might find helpful.

You made very negative comments about your daughter's appearance, then said she had self-esteem issues.

You wanted to know what your rights were, and did not appear to have any interest in the comments which various people who also have "swimming hair" issues made to try to help.

Sorry if you didn't get what you wanted out of the conversation, but what came through most, I thought, was the need to deal better with the bullying and self-esteem issues.

Bundle I will be trying some of the suggestions made and thank you for helping. Not everyone was nasty but many people were. I did point out it was some posters not all. I suspect I will get another barrage of criticism now so I will accept that we will all have to agree to differ on the fundamentals and give up posting.
ahundred times I was talking about not just professional treatment but how we treat each other in life generally. It has definately been an eye opener.

Hmm. But how people interact on a talkboard isn't generally I don't think.

It can be harsh sometimes, but often revealing and helpful too.

If your daughter is being really bullied because of her hair (not just being teased a bit - my dd has bright red hair and gets teased in a friendly manner about it, so I do know the difference) then it is the bullies and they bullying that should be addressed. You daughter should not have to change her behaviour to accomodate the bullies.

And, as an aside, I do think that it's a bit bonkers for a child to have a hair style that prevents her taking part in ANY activity. It reminds me of my dn refusing to go on a school trip to France when she was 12 because she wasn't allowed to take her straighteners. And her parents agreed with her!

And I don't think letting a girl opt out of swimming because of her hair is a "modern approach"

I'm afraid if your daughter is being bullied keeping her from swimming because she get's frizzy hair isn't going to stop it. You need to go to the school and have the bullying tackled from there.
The posts were nothing like the 1950's, people were telling you looks souldn't matter in this day and age.
You aren't helping your daughter by keeping her from swimming, though I do see what you were getting at from your original post.
I don't see why you have to start another thread about it, everyone has different opinions, so there are going to be people who disagree with you.

AMIS the comments were to try and demostrate how bad it is. I do not say them to my daughter she tells me. One of the fundamentals of my own job involves teaching posative reinforcement to parents.

FL I can understand you not wanting your DD to do swimmimng because it then makes her hair a complete mess then gives the bullies another thing to target her with.

BUT you asked for advice and are unhappy that most people are giving suggestions on how she could manage her appearance after wards and not backing your stance on NO SWIMMING.

As for your daughter not incorperating swimmimng in her careeer as a get out clause you might as well say no sport for all kids who aren' aiming to be professionals in it! My DD is not musical and I very much doubt the music lessons she has to go to will advance her career prospects but I'm not about to hot foot it down to school and say DD shouldn't do music as it won't get her a job.

You asked for advice I as a fellow health care proffesional I can't see how you can draw any comparasions with how you deal with patients and how you'd expect to be dealt with on a message board. Yes you have concerns regarding your daughters self esteem and her appearance after swimming but people did give ideas/thuoghts etc about how she could manage her hair. I think you need to get to the root of the problem -the bullying in general.

People thought you weren't dealing with the problem in the same way they would - what's wrong with that? You asked for an opinion and I'm afraid that myself and other posters on that thread are as unlikely to change their stance as you are.

As for all this 1950's stuff - I think that worrying about one's appearance rather than getting to the root cause of a problem is far more a 1950's attitude than persuading your daughter that she should attend the swimming classes.

thanks formidablelady

it's sometimes hard to see how to approach a problem when it's happening to someone we care about.

if every parent decided to pick n mix their child's education schools would be even more of a bureaucratic nightmare to run. I hated games at school but I did it, hockey on a freezing cold day, swimming on the same day I had to bring in heaps of stuff for domestic science, cross country running where my legs turned blue. I was rubbish at it. But there was plenty of other stuff I loved.

we complained to the school about bullying last year and it was (more or less) satisfactorily dealt with

"The posts were nothing like the 1950's, people were telling you looks souldn't matter in this day and age"
Depends if you are being bullied or not. And I think that that statement is a bit like saying there is no discrimination anymore. We hear it constantly but is it really true.

but if she was allowed "off" swimming, that would be discriminating against the other children too, surely, who might not particularly want to do it either?

Well, personally I hate it that schools put swimming on the agenda for 13 year old girls!

I think it's inappropriete at that age to make it compulsory & bordering on cruelty actually, and that opionion is from my own memory of being in that situation.

Most of my class infact, looked upon it with sheer dread and forged notes and all sorts of excuses to get out of it.

Put it on the agenda fine, but offer an alternative as well - do not mke it compulsory.

I'd be campaigning that with the school, rather than just fighting your daughters battle - you will probably find half the classes parents with you.

I was bullied at school formidable lady

Nothing I did changed that. If I had been let off swimming because I looked a mess afterwards, I would have been picked on for missing swimming. If it hadn't been the swimming, it would have been something else.

Your daughter needs coping strategies - a hairstyle that is easy to fix, glasses she likes, contacts that are easy to put on or whatever - and you and the school need to get to the bottom of the bullying and put a stop to it.

FWIW I've always found the attitude to girl's PE strange. I went to a mixed school with fab facilities etc, but hated PE cos there were boys in the class who just wanted to look at our boobs bouncing and snigger.
And the sports on offer were more competitive team based which bored me stupid.
one of the teachers was a man and told me specifically that having my period shouldn't stop me from running a mile and it was just mind over matter.

Any way, like the OP's daughter, I had plenty of activity outside school - went to private swimming and dance lessons and was fitter than most of them, but I hated school sports.
And hated the changing room antics - i had back-acne which I was very self conscious of and was bullied as a result of it. I also had dark hair on my legs and arms which some girls (and boys as we had to wear shorts) found hilarious - i ddn't wax then.

My point is that there was no support for me to just do yoga or some such non competitive, non impact sport which would have suited me much better as a person and also physically, and now 25 years later we seem t be offering the grin and bear it attitude to this OP's daughter..

Surely we can find some empathy? The OP has said that her daughter swims very well.
I think she is justified in keeping her out of the pool during this class, and I would suggest to the OP that she and some of the other mums get together to lobby for a yoga class for these girls.

yoga is excellent for posture and breathing and has been proven to have a huge benefit for self esteem as it encourages a calm and peaceful mind, and it has the added benefit of being non comparative and non competative.

IMHO it's perfect for girls who don't want to take part in more traditional jolly hockeysticks kind of 'sport', and it's more sustainable form of 'exercise' over a lifetime.

I'd be tempted to tell the school -to- -stick- -it- -up- -there- -backsides- she's not doing it, end of discussion.

However, I do feel that if she is the only child in the class that doesn't have to do it, that opens her up for more bullying.

I really wold see if any other parents are having similar issue's and get them onside and campaign for 'non-compulsory' swimming and an alternative.

to stick it up their backsides

"non-compulsory swimming"

err, no

it's a fantastic skill to have. if the issue is to do with timing and being rushed then surely it could be rescheduled?

I spent the summer term at dd1's school taking her class to swimming, helping some of the girls with dressing, putting on swimming caps etc, it is a bit of a faff but they loved it and I hope they will continue to enjoy this fab form of exercise

Thank you for some of your comments. I love the idea of yoga and P.E. more tailored to an individuals needs. so would she. I also like the idea of talking to other parents as I know most of the girls hate it. I don't want to be too aggressive though as I like the school and feel sure there could be some options apart from making them all do it.

i read your other thread but didn't post, but just wanted to say that i totally agree with tigerfeet's post, in particular the bit about coping strategies. keeping her back from swimming, or whatever else that comes along to expose her low self esteem, does protect her in the short term, but doesn't actually deal with the root cause.

hey yeah

let's get rid of it

and make the future classes into non-swimmers

By all means campaign for the lessons to be scrapped

Campaign for a more varied sports curriculum that covers more interests (god I would have loved to have done Yoga)

But that doens't help the OP's daughter much now does it? The OP's daughter need to have the bullying stopped.

One more question formidablelady - you said on your other thread that other girls don't swim - why then is it such a problem for your daughter not to? Obviously there's a precedent and the swimming is not compulsory.

Swimming is compulsory to key stage 2 so we wouldn't be getting rid of it.

didn't you already post this in the original thread? I'm not sure why you have started another thread tbh.

People are always going to be more forthright on a talkboard than in RL. It does seem rather that you are throwing your toffees out of the pram because you got suggestions and ideas that you don't agree with.