What is the real value of highly selective independents/grammars now?

[Bubblesbobbles]

Genuine question for parents further along in the process - what do people now see as the actual value add of highly selective Independent schools versus strong grammars/comprehensives?

I’m asking because the level of pressure around 7+/11+ entry for some schools (Bancroft’s/WCH/ICHS etc.) seems enormous now, with many children heavily tutored just to gain entry, and often still requiring significant tutoring/support afterwards.

At the same time, I know pupils from schools like Woodbridge who avoided that whole prep school/11+ treadmill, yet still ended up at places like Imperial studying Engineering and Physics with top A level results, EPQs, UKMT participation, competitions, strong extracurriculars, etc.

It also made me wonder whether mixed ability teaching environments may actually suit some children better in terms of confidence, independence and self motivation.

Another thing I noticed when visiting schools was that advertised “small class sizes” sometimes appeared to refer to form groups rather than actual teaching sets, which surprised me a bit.

I also wonder whether the gap between grammars/comprehensives and Independents is narrower than it used to be now that curriculum resources, enrichment opportunities and good teachers are more widely accessible.

For parents who chose either route — what do you genuinely think made the biggest difference for your child:
academic environment?
peer group?
confidence/networking?
teaching quality?
extracurriculars?
university outcomes?
pastoral support?

Interested in hearing balanced experiences from both sides.

@fairyring25 I guess I am very lucky but I don’t know any different as a Londoner.

Both my school & dcs school have teachers that have stayed for decades and put their own dc through the schools. And I guess many Catholic schools benefit from invested parents (in that you need to have attended mass regularly for years)

I have one at a very selective grammar and one at a very good comp.

No difference in class size, particularly in y7-9, in fact the grammar has slightly bigger classes, but there is a difference in the offerings. The grammar does trips abroad for language exchanges and outward bound style trips. All kids do a language for GCSE and do triple science. There's very little disruptive behaviour.

The comp has different opportunities and a slightly wider curriculum for GCSE, but definitely has more behavioural issues. It remains to be seen how well each child will do as eldest is just doing GCSEs. The school only sets for maths and doesn't require any specific GCSEs.

It sounds like you live near me @Bubblesbobbles. I wonder how many people from Woodbridge actually end up at Imperial given they generally want 4 A*.

Based on purely anecdotal evidence from friends, a lot of the middle class kids in our area seem to end up at RG unis but I'm not sure what the outcomes are for the less privileged kids.

The main advantage for my DC of a selective independent has been consistent, expert, specialist teachers who have a genuine interest in their subject well beyond the curriculum. It’s most obvious in KS3 (where they don’t have to follow the national curriculum) and A level, where it makes for really wide ranging class discussions.

Plus what others have said about behaviour, facilities, wide range of subject choices, pastoral care etc. It makes a difference that teachers know them as individuals, and have time set aside to do pastoral care, run clubs, support DC with SEND etc.

I think the journey is more important than the destination. If their school makes them slightly less attractive to Oxbridge (and I’m not at all convinced that it does) then that’s a price I’m happy to pay, in return for seven happy, well-supported years of secondary education.

We have all of this at our local state achool. There aren’t absolutes.

Privae, granmars, selected schools aren’t better. They are sometimes better for specific children

I think it depends entirely on where you are and what options you have. Had we stayed living where we were when my DC1 was born I have absolutely zero doubt that I would have been engaged in frenzied 11+ prep and if unsuccessful it would have been independent, come what may. But where we live now is a whole different ball game and a lot of the things that people here are citing as advantages of their DC's private education don't sound that different to what was offered at my DC's state schools. Certainly comparing to our local independents there is very little difference. I'm sure there are other schools elsewhere that offer far better facilities than any of the schools near us, but as they weren't an option that comparison is fairly meaningless. Here, neither the independents nor the state grammars within a half reasonable distance offered any appreciable advantage over our local very good comprehensive. In another place though that could be completely different,

If you do pick a state school, go for one where both teachers and pupils are encouraged to take pride in academic achievement.

Pupil numbers are falling and funding is based on head counts so schools should be actively trying to achieve academically etc to attract numbers.

Well yes, all schools are different and state comps vary enormously between schools and between areas. Parents need to do what's right for them and their children based on the local options available. If people are within catchment of an outstanding comp, they'd be usually idiots to pay for private, but not if their local comps are in special measures of otherwise very lowly ranked where going private is often the only guarantee of a half decent education for their child.

@Bubblesbobbles i do think its the peers you have. At our independent, its also mixed ability, small class sizes, and over half the class have SEN. There's a dedicated SEN teacher too. Parents all focus on education as best as can. The 'lazier' kids tend to be from wealthier parents who have spoilt them, but the majority of kids have got parents who are invested.

A family member got into a local indie but was refused a bursary and they went state. Grades went downhill as they got involved in the wrong crowds. The parents really regret not trying to find the funds to get them into private initially. I went to state and did pretty well but my peers were like me, all striving for more.