Higher or lower set for KS4? Secondary teachers - Help!!!

[Topsy1980]

Secondary Teachers - could someone who’s missed half of KS3 manage GCSEs? My 14yo dd (Y9) stopped attending school in Jan 2025. Prior to this 100% attendance all through primary and Y7. At end of Y7 she was moved down into a low set after school ranked all the pupils based solely on end of Y7 tests. This moved her away from all her friends and into a class where my dd said work was too easy and pupils’ behaviour was really disruptive. I complained etc to school but they refused to move her. She stuck it out for a term of Y8 and then attendance dropped more and more til she’s stopped trying to go in at all since January this year.
Now for KS4 the pupils are split into two groups to choose options - higher and lower bands (x and y). My dd is in the lower band.
My question is - if I asked them to move her into the higher band is it likely she’d cope having missed 18 months of KS3?

It sounds like her friends do better in tests than she does, and the behaviour in the school’s lower sets is quite bad.

What is your relationship with the school like? Have they even given a population move as an option?

And in direct answer to your question: it depends.

Some subjects KS3 feeds into KS4 more significantly. But not being in school for a significant stretch of time will impact her GCSEs performance. This is true of almost every student with high absence rates. Statistically this has been shown every year.

I have tried really hard with school, and been in regular communication. I’ve begged for work to do at home during her absence but they won’t due to school policy. Section 19 and local authority complaints went nowhere. EHCP only just been agreed after I requested it and fought for it at mediation. But all of this doesn’t change that fact if she’s in sets with poor behaviour and where she’s seen as “lower”, she’s embarrassed, frustrated and I suspect unlikely to attend. But if she’s moved up I worry it’ll be too much.

To do that, they would have to move someone else down... who at this moment in time is performing better.

Has she been doing any distance learning that would qualify her for a higher set if she sat tests?

It’s very unlikely she could keep up in the top set having missed so much school. The issue seems to be one of perception - that she feels embarrassed by being in the lower set. Have you tried getting her therapy to talk through how she’s feeling? It really needs to be reframed as her needing to get grades for her future prospects regardless of what set she’s in.

She wasn't keeping up with higher set work before she'd had 18 months off, there's no way she will now. Surely she'd be more embarrassed to be in high set and not be able to do the work? Frame it as going into the lower set as a stepping stone given she's had time off she needs to get back into the swing of it.

It depends.

Unless she's been working to keep up with the curriculum, it's unlikely.

Although you are talking sets, are you talking 2 ability bands and then set within each band?
How many forms entry is the school?

Even if they put her in Band B, she could be top set within that band for core subjects, and then options may not be set anyway.

Yes exactly that. So she chooses her options from band b and they set within that I think.

That was my thought. I have asked repeatedly for work to keep up but none was provided. She’s done sparx maths and reads a lot.

Does the lower half have more vocational options, and extra support for English and Maths?

Thank you that’s a useful way of framing it. Her EHCP is for SEMH - she has extreme anxiety about unfamiliar people, places, situations and so she hasn’t been able to engage with any therapy.

Yep!

in some subjects possibly, in other subjects it would be very very difficult.

maths and science and foreign languages build heavily on what is studied at ks3. She’d need to have kept up her studying.

other subjects - PE, DT, art etc are less reliant on the content studied at ks3 although obviously the skills are still useful.

in all honesty a kid put into a higher group who doesn’t have the previous knowledge will really struggle - I teach maths and I’ve seen this before - we did sometimes allow parental requests like this for maths and it was usually less than a week before the kid was in tears and saying they couldn’t cope.

i’m sorry for your child

this isn’t a solution

I can’t see how she she'd cope in the higher band if she was in a lower band before and has since missed a significant amount of schooling.

They probably thought she wouldn't keep up with the higher sets due to work missed and gaps in knowledge.

I can see why they don't set work for home as the work is set at school in the context of the teacher introducing topics, explaining things and assisting pupils. Your dd wouldn't have that and it would end up being a huge extra workload for them if they have to provide resources for kids at home and introduce topics and explain things separately for them and help them if they get stuck

In cumulative subjects (like maths, physics, MFL) it would be very difficult / impossible to continue at a higher level having missed out on the foundations. I think in more topic-based subjects (history, geography, biology) it may be possible, if they start topics which are new to the other pupils as well.

Sounds like she might do better with online school though? She could take each subject at the level she is at and wouldn't have to worry about disruption and reputation.

If she has missed two years I imagine the higher band will be too fast paced - in the lower band they will review material from KS3 rather than assuming students are confident on it, I’d expect. If it’s just two streams than presumably half of the year are in the lower stream, so I’m surprised she finds it so embarrassing to be in this stream? Presumably half of her friends are too? Similarly with behaviour - sometimes in a nurture group with just a small number of students who need lots of extra support and have significant SEN it’s justifiable that behaviour is disruptive - but I’d hope it wasn’t disruptive in every class in the lower stream. If it is, the school’s ability to manage behaviour is at fault.

Regarding not being set work online - it’s completely unrealistic to expect teachers to not only teach the children in the classroom, but also provide resources for children at home. It’s not as simple as sending over the resources from the lesson - most of the time they don’t the resources make sense on their own.

Hi @Topsy1980 and firstly I am sorry that your DD has struggled so much. I hope that she is doing better now.

Speaking as a former secondary teacher, I think that a student who had missed such a lot of KS3 would have a real challenge catching up to the level of others. In linear subjects like maths, some science, MFL and Eng lang, as others say, she could be a long way behind. Less so in topic-based subjects like history and Eng lit.

You say you asked for schoolwork though I can also see why this was difficult for the school with such long absences; did she do any other structured work? For example, did she work through the KS3 guides for various core subjects such as science, English, MFL? If so, can you evidence this to school?

Also it’s not clear what the higher and lower streams are? At my DCs’ school, students were (kind of) streamed for science – as in, more able students were in triple, others too double (in more or less the same time). So I guess there was a similar situation. But it might be much better for her to be in the groups where the pace is easier. Foundation science and maths would give her a good basis to move on post-16. Can you reframe it to her in that way perhaps – as a positive move?

How does she feel about going back to school overall? Might online school be a better option?

Thank you so much for these replies. I have offered homeschool, online, a change of school, but she only wants to be at her actual mainstream school.
I’m working on building her confidence and self esteem to get her back in.
For context she did manage the work in Y7 and was in top set but struggled with the tests at end of year; unfortunately her ASD diagnosis didn’t come through until later but if she’d had alternative arrangements I think she would’ve been fine. She’s been really let down by the systems, I feel.

Does she understand that her top sets/upper band at her mainstream school is off the table and not a choice?

Also does she still speak to and see her friends from this school?

It sounds horrible but the students will have grown up socially as well as academically.

Thank you. Yes she knows she’s in the lower band - but she didn’t know this until recently when GCSE options were explained to them.

She has kept in touch with 4 close friends she made when she moved into the lower set in Y8. She drifted from most of her primary school friends and two in particular who were her closest friends in Y7 but were absolutely vile to her and I’m pleased she stood up to them but they made her life miserable.
Im hoping if the girls have matured socially that school might be more bearable for my dd.

My child missed the whole of ks3 due to illness. Wasn’t even well enough to do work at home. She self studied GCSEs at home with my support, getting 7s and 8s. It is very possible without doing ks3. However, I’m not sure how possible it would be within mainstream school.

It is unlikely DD would cope in the higher sets at the mainstream school.

What support is in the EHCP?

It is the LA with the ultimate duty under section 19 of the Education Act 1996 to ensure those unable to attend school still receive a suitable full-time education. The school doesn’t have to send work home. Unfortunately, many have to enforce section 19 provision. As you have found, complaining isn’t a suitable remedy because it takes too long. In case it is still relevant/relevant in the future, going down the pre-action letter/JR route is better.

@WaitingForMojo I was going to mention that - I think it is possible to catch up, but not in school, since classes will not move at the pace she would need. But perhaps you could tutor her over the summer, @Topsy1980 ? After all, if she hasn't been to school, she won't really need a holiday. Not sure if the school would acknowledge that, though / what evidence of her progress they would need.