Considering a move from SEN school to mainstream secondary

[Mattters291]

Have you ever done this ?
daughter is autistic and has dyspraxia. Academically able but behind due to missed primary school education due to bad health. She is well behaved, stickler for the rules. Works hard and has caught up really well.
the LA maintained Sen schools for children with disabilities / health wouldn’t take her because they couldn’t meet her academic needs as only offered functional skills.
we ended up in a well known sort of well regarded London Indeoendent Sen schools for SPld. At the time it seemed the perfect choice as their admission requirements seemed to highlight they don’t take those with ASD where behaviour was a primary need. This is not me saying that schools shouldn’t but in terms of diff schools with diff needs that’s why we chose it. It’s been pretty much a disaster since starting nearly a year ago.
it’s chaos, lack of routine, lack of discipline too many asd children including mine with very little training of asd. She is struggling in class because she can’t do her work. Struggling with the lack of organisation of classes / teachers and lessons. Some days their subjects have no teachers. Other days their lessons are cut by half due to teachers arriving late.
lots of bad behavior/ bullying with no discipline.
There is some positives like the therapy teams and English department.
there is a lack of updating parents on behaviours / academic progress.
i have come to the conclusion there is just to many different needs in the school which may work if they could accommodate them but they can’t so it’s becoming too chaotic for her.
the issue I don’t think I will get her in to another Sen school.
so looking at smaller mainstream secondary schools but has anyone done this switch and found it okay ? She is good with rules so maybe thinking a mainstream may have more structure for her if I could find one with a good Sen department.
she was in mainstream up until year 6 - very minimal issues. I know there will be bad behaviour but I’m wondering if because mainstreams have more students even if she didn’t belong with one group of kids etc she would find her “ people “
that they will be more structured and routined.
in really lost as I never thought I would consider a mainstream secondary school ! X
we live in the areas of secondary schools like hurlingham academy, Chelsea academy, lady Margerets, Fulham girls
if anyone has any recommendations?

My daughter sounds similar. Doing well in a supportive mainstream. What bothers her the most is disrespectful and bad behaviour, especially in lower sets. Luckily she's v bright and in top sets for science, maths etc. Lower set for English (dyslexia) is where she finds it worst.
Helpful adjustments have been sitting out of PE as she finds it hard to change on time. Also remembering kit bag (no lockers).
She needed a lot of support in year 7 and lost a lot of her stuff.

I was going to say absolutely not just reading your title, but having read your post I'd definitely say it would be something to investigate - mainstream with good rules could absolutely be worth it!

Thank you for your response. Yeh I’m assuming she will find some children’s behavior challenging but on the other side there will be more children overall and so she can find her friendship group. At the moment her cohort is small and so there is no where to go when the drama unfolds. She is really struggling mentally.

Is it possible to try a trial via managed move?
Definitely meet the SENCO. I got a really good feeling about ours on first contact

It sounds like mainstream schools won't be able to meet her needs tbh - if the LA is funding specialist, the EHC must be high needs and will not easily map onto mainstream. Have you considered Canbury?

We didn’t consult with any mainstreams. They consulted with a local maintained Sen school that was more for those with disabilities / health conditions but despite her ticking those boxes academically they said they couldn’t meet her needs due to her being too able.
the other la maintained schools for ASD all said no due to their specialisty that’s why we ended up where was because we thought and the la thought that it was a good “ inbetween school “ it was never about her being too complex ( she is in some ways due to a mixture rather than severity ) but because she fitted somewhere between mainstream and Sen school.
the independent school she is in is for dyslexia / dyspraxia and dyscaculcia but runs mainstream education along side adaptions and is fairly academic. It seems due to probably the need for bums on sit they moved away from their admission requirements and have just taken on way more then they chew without relative training in the areas of needs they are accepting so it didn’t end up being the place we thought.

I don’t think so because she is an non section 41 school.

I'd suggest a mainstream with attached autism provision. There will be more of these coming soon (part of the Sen white paper that all secondary schools will have one) but for now does any of your preferred suggestions have one? She might not need to use it much but it would be there for therapy and at the ones I know children are also allowed to go there for quieter lunch and break times.

The only one in the local area is the apart of a mainstream but ran by a local la maintained Sen school it’s like a outreach hub connected. So when you consult it’s classed as a Sen school consult but located at mainstream school and can access the mainstream school. But it is for those those with pda and SEMH profiles alongside side their ASD and they were consulted by the la ( I didn’t want to ) and they said no to both the unit at the mainstream school and their main site Sen school. Said she didn’t fit the cohort and wouldn’t be good for her.

I'd look for a different independent, either normal or specialist setting rather than going to mainstream.

Where i live the bases / units are getting built quickly and sounds about the right level for your daughter. Our school doesn't have one yet, but a very similar welling setting. My dd can access at any time. I've been reassured this won't change when the unit opens next year.

I did meet another mum who's dd was in a unit and her dd similar to mine. She did feel that it hadn't quite met their expectations. Kids that should probably be in SEN schools were majorty, so her dd found it disruptive in the base. And not pushed enough academically. But they won't all be like that.

Apologies if my terminology not quite correct. Not in England but trying to use English terms (wales).

Yes my son was in a specialist school and we moved him to mainstream. He loves it but is very out of his depth academically. The plan is to cut down on subjects. We will see how he goes.

Yes I would consider a move, specialist settings are not always the best for the reasons you described, but you do need scope out the available mainstream schools. Particularly around teaching, peer relationships and extra curricular opportunities, mainstream schools may be able to provide a better offer.

Yeh I have been looking at this to

i looked at blossom house but it would be too low functioning.
fairly house criteria she just wouldn’t meet.
I looked at some local Independent schools one already said no and waiting for the other school but I’m going to guess a no to.
majority of the other independent mainstreams are selective and although academically able not to the level they require for entrance.

just feel completely stuck.

As a pp says, in your position I'd be trying to get a place at our local private school with exceptional reputation, funded by LA. I know it happens and it might be easier to agree as she already has funding.

But I'm guessing these schools are a rarity.

My daughter wouldn't be funded atm (as she's doing so well where she is), but if the wheels fall off that's my distant plan

Yes the La I don’t think will be an issue they are currently paying much more than what a local independent school would charge but I just can’t find one that will take her.

Is EOTAS an option? We ended up with a hybrid package of tutoring in person and online to get through gcse years but it’s taking its toll on me to still be a facilitator around working at home too. I ran out of fight with the LA to get paid enablers to replace me. We are hoping our child will be able to try ms college post 16 with support.

My son with a similar profile went to Canbury and did well - 7’s and 8’s at GCSE. Have you thought of The Hall School, Wimbledon? I would not recommend Ricards (although my dyslexic daughter went there and did well) - they have a range of girls and you need to be robust.

Yes this will be our last option but trying to avoid it. She wants to go to school. In some ways and some instances she does like her current school but it’s like the rollercoaster is too much for her and it’s really showing and its a shame because some parts of it is great and I keep going for that reason but then it all falls down again.

My daughter went to blossom house but that was 10 years ago. They had several kids who went on to uni - i don't know about now, but of course it is heavily oversubscribed anyway.

The main thing imo is to find an environment that your daughter can cope with and not be bullied in - the last thing you want is school refusal.

I knew 2 academic girls with asd at local mainstream and private schools who basically had breakdowns due to not being able to cope with the school environments. One went to Canbury, one to Blossom House.

A friend's asd son went to Canbury and moaned like mad about it - he wanted mainstream and his parents looked into it but they were advised he wouldn't cope and they left him at Canbury.

It isn't easy to find a perfect fit, especially for asd girls.

DS did this in primary after 3 years at a special school. It was a huge success for him, he ended up with A levels despite having a physical disability and Autism, including processing difficulties.
The key imo is having a watertight EHCP and a supportive SENDCo.
DS had a 1:1 for most subjects at High School and so if lessons got noisy they could take him out and work elsewhere. He even had 1:1 hours in Sixth Form, something they hadn’t done before but recognised his needs. He had excellent reasonable adjustments for exams and was able to drop a GCSE/ AS subject to focus on exams.
DH and I have never regretted our decision and DS was part of making it too.

How old is your DD? I'm wondering how much time she has left at secondary. Am thinking in terms of options, GCSE courses etc.

My DS (ASD) is in a designated specialist provision attached to a mainstream secondary. It's worked well for him. He's Yr11 now so just about to leave. He is very academically able in some subjects (predicted 8's/9's at GCSE) but would socially have been 'eaten alive'. He's attended most subject lessons with 1 to 2 support but he's also been able to opt out of things like MFL and drama. There's also more flexibility about GCSEs.

Are you absolutely sure there are no mainstream secondaries with ASD units within travelling distance? As I'm sure you know, it doesn't have to be in borough.

The other thing to ask is how robust is her EHCP? Does it specify and quantify her support? I've found that some things are just done as standard in a specialist provision but outside of that it has to be absolutely watertight. Even then I've known parents struggle to get the support their DC are legally entitled to. Being brutal, some schools and LA's know that pupils are going to 'time out' of the system.

Have you looked around any secondaries? Spoken to their Sencos? That could give you an idea of their approach to SEN. I'm sure you're aware that it's ironically the 'Outstanding' schools with high GCSE results that can be the most unwelcoming.

I've known a couple of parents who have moved their DC from highly specialist settings to mainstream with ASD units and it's worked pretty well.

I also know a couple of parents who have very bespoke EHCPs that include part time school alongside funded specialist tuition at home/at an alternative provision.

Does your DD know what she wants to do post-16? That could also influence things.

She’s in year 7 and her ehcp is very robust the la employ a 1-1 for her seperately that is never employed by the schools she is at.

The current school sounds like the wrong school. However, from what you post, I doubt DD would cope in a state mainstream. If the LA named the current independent SS, particularly without a fight and without consulting MS, there must be strong evidence that MS won’t work. Also, how behind is behind? For those subjects which are settled, if DD would be in lower sets, behaviour is generally more challenging.

In a not too dissimilar situation but we’ve not had our EHCP yet - we will see if it’s issued. I’m really struggling to find an academically robust secondary setting. Daughter is in a mainstream private prep at the moment and burning out.