Extra time

[UltimateLuxury]

This isn’t meant to be provocative but…

my daughter is sitting GCSEs at the moment and told me last night that 43 kids of 120 are getting extra time

This seems really high to me. The school, although fee paying, is very academically strong and doesn’t have large SEN numbers.

To be clear, my point is not that my daughter isn’t getting this extra time. However, it feels that maybe the pendulum has perhaps swung to the point that those that really do need the additional time may be being disadvantaged by those with softer requirements?

How is the decision made? Would be interested in views.

Hmmm, ever been to a job interview with screening or a timed practical task involved? Of course we judge people on those things all of the time.

GCSEs are marked on %. So there isn't a set pass grade. The top say 2% get a Grade 9, then then next 5% get a grade 8. I don't agree with it, but it does mean that if someone has extra time and achieves a higher grade than you, then you do get knocked down the pecking order. A lot of the students I teach genuinely need extra time, but the system is goosed at the moment. There is no need for a diagnosis or anything. i just say I think they need extra time. Implement it. Collect the records and then they have extra time. As a teacher it feels chaotic and that I am responsible for deciding and implementing who gets extra time and I don't feel qualified for it. It used to be we were given a list that was already decided based on I guess official diagnosis.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?
invigilators do not have access to data to determine if the system is being abused. Do you actually believe we know how many pupils have extra time in all the schools in the area where we work? Do you think we have knowledge of access arrangement trends across all schools?
It isn’t our job to question why someone has extra time or to question whether they deserve it. It’s none of our business and rightly so.
Our role is to uphold the exam regulations and ensure those students with access arrangements receive their extra time, rest breaks, scribe…etc etc. We are there to support students, not judge them.
No doubt JCQ has detailed information on trends and data on access arrangements in private v state schools. Why not contact them with your concerns?

Jobs may well involve a time element but GCSEs are about knowledge not ability to write fast. Without extra time my DC would fail every exam. Yes they are going to struggle hugely to get a job but at least now they can evidence that they do have knowledge and if given a chance in a steady job they could succeed.

1. No-one is being squeezed down into the grade 3 category because someone got extra time. Unless schools are totally faking the evidence the exam board require with the applications for access arrangements.
2. The system is not easy to game, it requires 3 pieces of evidence of work with extra time being used that has been carefully marked by the teacher, along with a clear statement about normal way of working from the teacher. There would be no opportunity for a parent to game the system, unless they were home-educating parents or had bribed the teachers. Nothing the parents submit would be used as evidence by the exam boards, except in the instance of home education.
3. The system is not at all wide open, it requires large amounts of evidence to be collected and submitted which the exam boards will only accept if it has been processed in the right way by the right people.

My ds says that it's often approx 40-50% of the class who get extra time. Two of his closest academically bright friends get the extra time because they like to take their time writing. Both their parents are the pushy types.

I may not have explained that very well.

The argument has been made on the thread that a higher proportion of those in private schools have extra time, because parents can afford to pay for a diagnosis. There is a perception that this gives them an unfair advantage.

It could however be argued that parents that have the funds to pay for a tutor, so their child has 1-2-1 or small group tuition, to increase their knowledge, understanding and exam technique is also unfair. It may be more likely to cause an increase in exam grade than extra time.

If extra time is unfair for those that don't get it, why isn't extra tuition also seen as unfair.

The extra time won't make any difference if the child doesn't know the answer anyway. The extra tuition means a child is more likely to know the answer.

Would be interesting to know how many of those saying extra time is unfair, would happily pay for a tutor, without seeing it as unfair.

Two different issues. Both can be impacted by ability of parents to pay for something (although extra time can be given without a diagnosis, and diagnosis doesn't automatically mean extra time). Both can impact a child's grade, and based on the reasoning of some, impact on another child's grade due to grade boundaries.

I am not defending private education. DC is not in a private school - but instead is in the local comprehensive, with a higher than average number of pupils on free school meals.

Re 'extra time in real life'.

People who know they have slow processing won't go for / succeed in high pressure quick thinking jobs. They will generally choose jobs that play to their strengths.

(See also arguments that some kids should just learn to cope with crowded noisy secondary schools, which are in fact unlike the majority of work places.)

Meanwhile it's absolutely nowhere close to that in my school

It was nowhere close to that in the school where I invigilated. I haven't worked there since Covid but I think they have tightened up if anything.

Every single student in DS1’s independent school got extra time.

As it happens, it’s a special school, but it’s easy to jump to conclusions isn’t it?

Oh yes, I’m sure there’s nothing to look at here and it’s just nosey people jumping to ignorant assumptions… 🙄 All the whataboutery on this thread does not negate the fact that we have a system where those with money can pay and push for extra-time. The system as it stands is wide open for abuse. As a teacher I see this all the time. I realise that those who have children with extra-time clearly do not want to think about this or for anything to change, but there are wider issues at play. I have never known a private school parent to pay for a diagnosis and not get results. They are fee paying customers in a very competitive market, and private schools are more than happy to accommodate them. This should not be the case. The existence of tutors etc is irrelevant- these are not exam board sanctioned like extra-time. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

On another note, pupils at private schools are allowed to sit IGCSEs which were banned in state schools by Gove. Most, including those I’ve worked in, do this, with children allowed to submit 50% of their assessed GCSE in some subjects as coursework. Much easier and much less stressful for a large proportion of students. State schools do not have the same option to do this. Apologies for going off topic, but once you see the big picture it’s pretty disturbing.

For those who do not like hearing uncomfortable truths- ‘why don’t you complain to the exam board?’ / ‘it’s none of my business who gets extra-time’ / ‘how should I know if the system is fair’ - this is the precise reason why I post on threads like this. The conversation quickly moves from initial outright defence of the existing system, to such posters saying that they couldn’t possibly know what goes on in schools, which is interesting in itself. I am trying to shed light on what I see going on and how it benefits the most privileged in society. I think it is something that is / will be investigated further and I expect it to cause outrage at a national level.

I have no experience of Private Scools and strongly object to paying for privilege including extra time. However, the poster who said it's not the invigilator's job to question ET is correct. I worked as an invigilator for 5 years after retiring from teaching and I was told who was allowed extra time. I had no more role in the decision making than the school cook or grounds staff. It was not my job and, in a part time occasional job on slightly above minimum wage, decisions like that were way above my pay grade.

I’m not saying that it’s their job or that they should take it up with their management. I am suggesting that they think about the issue a little more widely before jumping up a full throated defence of the current system which is so clearly flawed.

*jumping to

Oh this is my nephew! So much pressure, he comes out totally deflated. He says it’s all there in his head but can’t get the answers out. What to do?

I have never known a private school parent to pay for a diagnosis and not get results.

Parents don’t decide to pay for an expensive private assessment purely at random. It is very likely the child is at private school in the first place because they have been failed by state school. They will have seen their GP and probably sat on a multi-year long nhs waiting list. School will also have flagged issues. They are assessed by a regulated medical professionals using standardised diagnostic tools prior to being given a diagnosis that will sit with them for life. All that and the decision to provide extra time is not based on diagnosis.

I have no experience of Private Scools and strongly object to paying for privilege including extra time.

Do you also object to buying privilege by moving into good state school catchments? Why is paying for a mediocre private school that, whilst better than surrounding failing state schools, offers nothing like the privilege of the London state schools many politicians send their children too, worse than enjoying the privilege of a high flying state school? Or as a PP mentioned paying for tutors? I suspect there is just as much variation between state schools and private schools when it comes to extra time.

Do you think 30% of private school pupils should qualify for extra time? Does this sound reasonable?

I'm not sure anyone has done that. I certainly haven't. I think people have spoken about how it works in a state school e.g. students having the time but not using it because they are disaffected but still entitled to the support.

You could stretch that to include buying books at home, going to places of interest or even buying a house at all. I'm not going there.

Several posters jumped in at the beginning of the thread to tell the OP off for wrong-think when she questioned the number of students at her daughter’s private school receiving extra-time. I believe that this is a subject that should be exposed to more light and greater public scrutiny. Anyone who questions the rising levels of extra-time / access arrangements are painted as reactionary. IMHO, the most reactionary system of all is the one we have now, which is being milked for all it’s worth by private school parents and the middle classes. I’m not sure many people without experience of the private sector realise this.

I haven't argued with that. I agree. I was specifically commenting on the idea that invigilators would have a say in it.

Do 30% qualify for extra time?
in my DD’s cohort it was 10 and it’s around 10 in the state school where I work.
A teacher on this thread posted that it was pretty straightforward for her to provide evidence of a requirement of extra time - no diagnosis needed so presumably the extra time arrangement is potentially being abused in private and state schools?
Am not sure what your objective is on this thread. As an invigilator I am well aware if what my role involves and enquiring about an individual’s entitlement to access arrangements is not part of it.
You state you come on these threads to highlight these issues. Surely it would be more effective to highlight them to JCQ or to the education department?

I think in some private schools a higher % will have extra time, as a proportion of students will be students with SEN whose parents are avoiding / fleeing the state system.

However private school families are almost by definition better off and more academic focused so will be more on the ball about getting assessments if needed and pushing for adjustments. Some private schools will assess everyone as a matter of course, state schools don't have the funds to do that so pupils can get overlooked. That 'isn't fair' but to some extent it could be viewed as a failure of the state system not the private schools over diagnosing.

Ultimately if someone thinks a school is cheating the system getting extra time for pupils who don't qualify they should report it.