Extra time

[UltimateLuxury]

This isn’t meant to be provocative but…

my daughter is sitting GCSEs at the moment and told me last night that 43 kids of 120 are getting extra time

This seems really high to me. The school, although fee paying, is very academically strong and doesn’t have large SEN numbers.

To be clear, my point is not that my daughter isn’t getting this extra time. However, it feels that maybe the pendulum has perhaps swung to the point that those that really do need the additional time may be being disadvantaged by those with softer requirements?

How is the decision made? Would be interested in views.

It may well be the case that your child would still qualify. From what I’ve seen, I definitely feel that the system is far too lax and rewards the already privileged disproportionately.

How would I possibly know if that happens or not?
I don’t know how many students have extra time at the private schools in my city. In my DD’s cohort about 10% had extra time- dd was in a room with extra timers so this is the only evidence I have.
i invigilate in a state school and for this year’s cohort it’s probably around the 10% mark. For the year 10s it’s higher.

You should know if you are going to come out swinging in defence of a system that actually helps to entrench privilege. You are an invigilator but have not chosen to look beyond the school you work in at the system as a whole. Of course, you don’t have to do that, but it’s advisable before coming on and advocating for such a system. A distinct lack of professional curiosity I’d say.

Oh please. Invigilating is something I do for 3 weeks a year. It is not my "profession". I go in and support the kids allocated to me the best I can, I follow the rules as set by the exam board. And that's it.

Wow! When probed there’s a lot of people who claim to not know a lot of things on topic they’ve come out strong for. If I was so sure that extra-time at the levels currently being allowed was a good thing, and was arguing to defend it, I’d make damn sure to know the lay of the land first.

Now you are being ridiculous!
Do you honestly believe that invigilators should be privy to data on all local schools (private and state) so that we can determine if the system is being abused by wealthy parents?

And yet here you are, defending the status quo, despite being in schools for three weeks a year.

No I don’t, but I do think that questioning a system where levels of extra time are rising at ridiculous rates might be a starting point rather than swallowing everything you are told.

I haven’t commented on whether the current levels of extra time are a good thing or not… rather, I have presented my experiences as the parent of a child with extra time and an invigilator in a state school.

It is not my job to challenge anything. I know from personal experience and sitting in rooms for hours on end with young people that there are very valid reasons why some of them have extra time and other additional arrangements.

If you want the system changed, take it up with people who have the power to change it.

And what exactly have I been told?

What do you think then?

Weak. It’s everyone’s job to think.

How could she possible know this? I’m a teacher and I’d have to ask for those stats for my school - no student would know

In order to "think" then you need the information. And as an invigilator you are told "today you are working with Jack, he has 25% extra time". It is not your place to ask WHY Jack has the 25% extra time, or to quiz Jack, or Jack's teachers, on his medical diagnosis or lack of. What an invasion of privacy. I am not told how many people are sitting a particular exam, and therefore what percentage of that total the additional arrangements people make up.

So actually, I have no way of reasoning whether there are more/less/the same number of people than last year.

As an English Language and also Literature examiner, I can categorically state that writing more is actually a disadvantage. Candidates turn what could have been a succinct and sharp essay/piece of writing into an overly long, complex and dreary response. So anyone using extra time for this isn't benefitting.

I had a student 2 years ago who wrote 1200 words for a task that should have been around 400 words (we know this because we paid to get his paper back) and came out with a grade 5 when we thought he'd achieve a 9. He'd clearly bored the examiner to death with his overly wordy, faffy and overly elaborate waffle.

in the school where I invigilate I have not seen a huge increase in extra time and have seen an increase in rest breaks.
The number of students requiring separate accommodation due to anxiety has decreased and learners are encouraged to sit exams in the main hall sitting at the back or front (their preference). Ime this a positive change.
its hard to comment on whether x student should have extra time as I don’t know the reason for the award and it’s none of my business.
I only have limited experience of private school access arrangements and, contrary to your assertion that wealthy parents are abusing the system my Dd did not receive extra time in all four a levels despite me ‘paying’ for the evidence!

In terms of private school - a lot of children in private schools have struggled in state school due to things like autism, dyslexia, etc. Bright children who were being failed in state school. These children are often able to thrive in private schools but they still have the disability that led their parents to pull them out of state school in the first place. They have an ‘advantage’ in that parents have been able to afford, often with significant struggle, to send them to private schools where others with the same issues are failed by state. It isn’t the fact they are actually supported with their disability that is unfair, it is that many children aren’t supported y the state that is unfair.

Be glad these kids are getting the support they need.

I’m autistic, got ADHD and probably mild dyslexia too. I could definitely have done with extra time for English Language, Literature and other essay-based subjects. I didn’t need extra time for maths. I don’t have the executive functioning of a neurotypical person which makes planning and organizing the ideas for an essay very difficult. I also tend to get a jumble of ideas at once and get overwhelmed by the sheer number of them and find it impossible to decide which ideas are the most important.

FWIW, DC2 has 25% extra time in exams and rarely needs it.

I have a DC in a state school who gets a lot of extra time. Ten minutes extra might seem nice but when you have significant extra time it becomes incredibly tiring to have to concentrate for so long. I also agree with the PP about the impact on revision - doing ‘active’ revision such as answering past papers, drawing up mind maps, or taking notes takes too much time so it is impossible to get through the course material.

I guess the question is purpose?
Why do people get GCSEs?
Do they do into jobs which rely on the fact they can do long bits of writing or complicated maths sums in 2 hours say?

Some jobs, which require you to have GCSEs, would absolutely require you to be able to think as quickly as an exam would or even more quickly - a paramedic for example. However many jobs simply wouldn't require this. In my job as a Teaching Assistant, I have never had to recall information very quickly under extreme pressure. Some pressure yes, not with all the time in the world, but my boss doesn't say I need to write mid term reports on all my students in 3 hours!

I think exams are designed to elicit information from students in this way because that is the easiest way to assess everyone using the same tools to give a baseline ability which can be measured. However, for most people, they aren't going to fail in jobs because their writing speed is slow or because they can't recall major amounts of information uber fast. How then would it benefit society if these people who have extra time, didn't and just got lower grades? Would society be better because someone's exam results makes it look like they haven't got the ability to do a job, when that job doesn't require them to do the thing that made them fail their exam?

Thing is, grade boundaries are competitive. For all those with extra time, others are being squeezed down into the Grade 3 category. In the case of pay-for-diagnosis this could mean a privileged private school child with parents who know how to game the system pushing a less advantaged child under the cut off. Extra time should be much rarer than it is. At the moment the system is wide open, and when that happens you are inviting abuse. I’m afraid I believe that with 30% and upwards of kids in some schools getting extra time, that this is what we are seeing.

The only justification I see on this thread is - I don’t have to question this / it’s not my job to know about this / it’s none of my business etc, whilst defending a system that is open to abuse.

I teach an essay based A level subject and have quite a range of abilities. I have quite a number of students who get extra time and definitely need it.

students shouldn’t be getting lower grades just because they read slower or write slower than others. In real life we don’t judge somebody on how quickly they can write/ read/ process information.

The extra time levels the playing field. All my current students use their extra time in my subject otherwise they would lose it. It has to be their normal way of working.

Honestly ET is not going to help a student who doesn’t have the knowledge or understanding but to many of my students the extra time allows them to achieve the grade which reflects their ability shown in lessons.

The same argument could be used by those paying for tutors.
A child may/may not have an ALN or other need that warrants additional time, but parents that can afford it can pay for tutors. Those that can't afford it don't.
Paying for a tutor to fill any gaps in knowledge and help with exam technique, may for some be more likely to improve an exam grade than extra time.

The extra time won't help if the child doesn't know the subject/answer to the question. For those than do know the information, but may take longer eg for their brain to process things, to physically write etc, then it means they have the opportunity to demonstrate that knowledge in tge sahe way as others

This is false equivalence. Exam boards can’t influence the use of private tutors even if they wished to, but they can tighten up the restrictions on extra-time.