Is it too late to prep for 11+?

[TrixieCat]

My daughter is in year 5. She just moved schools in September (both state schools) and her new school at her last parents evening asked whether we'd been thinking about grammar school applications for her. We hadn't really thought about it and now I've read that most parents are getting their children to prepare from year 4... We wouldn't be taking a high pressure approach to it; just some practice papers, lots of reading and maybe an app subscription so is it far too late?

I know it's tricky to answer as a lot comes down to aptitude and how well a child can perform under exam conditions, but does it sound unreasonable to try?

Depends which grammar school area. Most people here start preparing at the beginning of October in year 5 (I.e just after the 11+ has been done by year 6 children). I wouldn’t panic but if you can find a good very experienced tutor to help. Depends on your child, if borderline then I would question the suitability of a grammar anyway. If high flying then probably fine with tutoring/work at home from now one,

Honestly it’s not too late if your DC is academically capable. I don’t think it does DC any favours if they have needed 2 years intensive tutoring to get in to then flounder and struggle.

The most sensible parents I know paid for 6 weeks tuition and did practice papers for technique and familiarity.

Thanks both. I think looking for a tutor for a couple of months and some home-based practice will be the way to go.

It had always been somewhere at the back of my mind that we should look into it, but we've had such a complicated few years that I've somehow just not focused in on it and now feel very much on the back foot!

Don’t worry, in my opinion a child should be able to get in without tutoring and parental help if they are going to thrive so the tutoring and parental help is belt and braces, learning how to pass the actual exam and some good skills for lifelong learning. Also depending on what other options you have maybe try and just badge it as ‘just one of our options and to apply we need to do the test so we do a bit of practice to make sure the test is familiar when you sit it.’ Rather than ‘oh help this is our only option’ so it is stressful etc etc

@TrixieCat I dont think its too late if your child is quite able. I was speaking to a tutor/neighbour who was saying it was throwing money down the drain at this point to tutor, that i should have started a long while ago with it so just to try it out now without too much pressure.

Some of the kids in our class have started tutoring heavily though. We are in London. Ive heard serious people have tutored since Y4.

Some people where I am start in year 2 😢 Most start at the beginning of year 5, with many more relaxed parents of able kids only doing some tutoring over the summer.

Sad to say, most of the children I know who passed have had some level of tutoring (including my own). I feel it shouldn’t be the case, but it is 🤷‍♀️

I’d say that if your DC is capable and keen, do a bit of tutoring if you’re in a financial position to do so, and get cracking on the CGP books!

If they are academically capable yes go for it and start now.

But
We wouldn't be taking a high pressure approach to it

Imo "There is no try, only do."
It's a target with a clear objective.
It IS by nature competitive and has a binary outcome. Either go for it properly or dont.

A half hearted effort is the worst of all worlds, just save your time effort and money if you dont want to do a proper run at it.

You’ve got plenty of time - work through the CGP books together and do a couple of practice tests. The schools you are applying for should have example questions online

Don’t forget that you will need to be applying to do the test shortly so check timing of that too

Where do you live? Where we are, the deadline has been for applying for the test, so you’d be too late.

I feel that starting a bit later isn’t necessarily a disadvantage. A prolonged prep period can easily lead to burnout. Based on my observations on the forums, many of those who successfully get in rely on reasonable amount of DIY prep with zero external tutors, while I rarely hear of successful outcomes from those who have been tutored for years. This is just my personal speculation, and I'm planning to test this theory with my own DD, but perhaps you haven't missed out on as much as you think.

I don't think it's too late. We started with a tutor in the January of year 5 having done a few months of Atom first and DS smashed his Indy exams.

Thanks to all of you who have replied. Feeling more positive! We did a verbal reasoning paper last night and she did really well, but was definitely quite slow at completing. I guess speed might come a little with familiarity 🤔.

Good luck to all the kids prepping (unless they're applying to the same school as us 🤣)

If she’s naturally clever she needs practice with timed tests. Get a tutor now and she’ll be fine. Some grammer schools offer 12+ and 13+ entry too so it’s worth asking

Something I didn’t realise until my girls were that age is that it is COMPLETELY dependent on your own location, amount of grammar schools about and thus amount of competition. It isn’t a nationwide pass. Areas where there’s lots of grammar schools will see 20% of all kids getting in so will need far less tuition than the areas where thousands of kids are fighting it out for a handful of spaces.

We only did a month of Atom learning (10-20 mins a day) before the entrance exams so my son could get familiar with the question formats.

I'm one of the minority but I don't think all the months and years of prep are required.

Completely agree with this having done the 11+ twice. We half arsed the first one and they didn’t pass. Did the second with much more focus and they sailed through. The test varies by area but by it’s not good enough just to be academically capable, for some reason they’ve all decided that being able to do it at all at the speed of light is equally important 🙄 26 maths questions in 25 minutes in our area and you can’t come at that with no speed practice!

Don’t worry, in my opinion a child should be able to get in without tutoring and parental help

In London the competition is off the scale, you need familiarity with test style and speed. It’s normal to tutor from yr 4 and many start earlier

we have just come out the other side (London Indy rather than grammar) and from all the kids and results I’ve seen I would say it’s as much about exam technique and familiarity with the test formats as it is the knowledge itself.
if your DC is willing to pay attention they can get through a lot in a few months. If can get a good tutor , make sure they are experienced with the test formats specifically. Practice tests set by you and research into content, formats and timings on your part is 2/3 of the battle.

After being spammed by tutors on mumsnet after posting here, im interested to know what the tutors could cover over next 6 months. My friend is going to be paying for a tutor for 120 per hour from now to get her daughter into a London indie (currently in another indie). She has money but I cant afford this myself - is there much I can do myself? Ive been working through cgp maths books slowly with DD just as additional support in year 5 but not to prep for the 11 plus specifically.

We haven't got a specific school in mind but thinking about Habs.

Same in my area. You need to find out what the usual pass mark threshold is. In my area the marks are age adjusted. A raw score won't help if you have a September born as they will need a higher score than an August born. In my area the school is cagey about how they age adjust too so you have no way of truly knowing what score they need.

My daughter is very clever, natural aptitude in all areas and didn't get in despite the prep we did. s
She was literally 2 marks off the threshold. She needed to get over 90% which I didn't realise. This was super selective though. I know she would have passed at a less competitive grammar school.

Many of her (also clever) friends didn't pass either, the only one who did was the friend who had been going to tuition classes since y2 🫣.

This friend is still having tuition now, even though she is at the grammar (y8) is very clever and doing really well I guess her parents really want to make sure she gets the highest grades in her GCSES.

@tequilam0ckingbird yikes, year 2. I know of one girl who started at that level, went to HBS (henrietta barnett) but estranged from parents as she felt they pushed her too hard.

Vocabulary is key - I would get a 11plus vocabulary book and encourage her to learn two new words a day. I also got my kids kindles so they could press on a word they did not know and dictionary meaning would pop up. Both passed 11 plus.

Depends on which grammar. Some are much easier than others. My son only had two months prep - he went to a local lady who specialised in 11+ preparation. He was able to complete all the verbal and non verbal papers with no issue already. However, he was too slow. Her teaching showed him how to answer questions more quickly, as well as covering questions which were more complicated. It has stood him in good stead. He has come across very similar tests in job interviews and always aced them. He managed to get into his local grammar as a result of the two months prep. But we worked every day for two months on papers at home - at the end of that period, his existing school called me in to tell me how pleased they were with him as he had improved in all areas of his school work!

@TrixieCat You do need to check re: application deadlines as it may be a moot point, as pps mentioned upthread. The LEA near us (grammars) brought the deadline forward to end of March this year, so it has already passed..

A parent friend of mine went to the same grammar when she was 11 and she told me she had been prepping since reception age. Daily at home, exercises each day and past papers ovet the weekend. I didn't know this was possible and quizzed her on it. she said she did actual papers- no idea how. Maybe someone mocked up age equivalent papers for her.

I said "wow, you must have got 100% on the paper" and she said "yes".

I don't think she enjoyed her school experience though.