How to choose between these grammar schools and nearby family areas?

[L186]

According to your experience and knowledge, how will/did you choose from the following grammar schools if your DS qualified for them? also considering if the surrounding areas are safe, convenient and nice to live for families. Moving nearby to the school is one of the idea in the near future; it’s also one of the important elements to result the final decision. I’m sure all the schools are fantastic in different criteria. The matter is down to which one fits the child and family the best.

Offering OOC places with enough scores:

• Dartford Grammar school,
• The Judd School,
• Sutton Grammar School,
• Wallington county grammar school,
• Colchester Royal Grammar school,
• Westcliff high school for boys,

Need to move into their designated areas:

• The Latymer school,
• King Edward VI grammar school Chelmsford,

Any thoughts, facts, experiences and opinions are welcome.

Grammars can suck the life out of local comps. I’d make sure the local comp was good enough incase 11+ doesn’t give you the desired outcome. Our grammars are decent, our comps appalling, one kid down, second to go and it’s a bit scary to be honest.

I can’t work out where on earth you could possibly live to be commutable to all of those.

Don't move to live near a grammar school unless there is a Plan B for your child not passing the 11+

(and on a more practical note, I'd suggest asking MN to edit the title to include the school names/ areas and you might get some help from people who actually know the schools).

Presumably the idea is to sit several exams and move later once scores are out.

@LIZS possibly I still can’t believe that many people make their kids sit all those exams. That must be at least 4 different 11+ areas ?

@L186do you only have one child? If not I would look very closely at the state schools in those areas too.

Thanks all for your responses and questions.
Maybe I should have mention some background of us:

We work and live in central London, both with international background, only started living in the UK from studying Master and above degrees. We knew little about the UK system below university, sent our only DS to a local state primary rating Good, although disappointed by the quality of education and some kids’ behaviours, DS is happy there and has friends from all over the world as it’s a very diverse school.
After the pandemic, we considered relocating out of central London to somewhere that is a bit easier to afford a house with nice gardens as WFH is common, but don’t know where to move to. Had a look of some house all over the place, still no idea.
Since DS will move to secondary and we saw his school reports say his very capable academically with great death in both Maths and English reading, we started to think maybe it’s wise to choose where to move to depending on his future school.
There is almost no homework from his primary school, so he had plenty of time to participate in many different clubs (sports, art, music), charities and activities after school time. He’s very energetic, sociable and has many interests, particularly love sports and reading books.
The private school fees are too high and not worth it, the only decent comprehensive secondary here with rigorous discipline is on the boarder of catchment from us, so that’s our backup option, if we are not moving or no success in the 11+.
As I said, we want to move after the primary time to avoid upheaval, and don’t want to make the exams a huge pressure or must for DS, so we only want to consider those schools that don’t restrict where we are living now. After some research, state secondary schools are mainly offering space based on your current address, only a few grammar schools are offering all or partial spaces regardless of your address. So we shortlisted some around London.
Unexpectedly, DS has passed exams for these schools with good scores after a few months of studying on 11+ curriculum once a week in an extra class and he was very much enjoyed study with mind-liked peers in a non disruptive environment. He sat different style of the 11+ exams although only studied the GL version. He said he preferred to attend exams rather than go to school as he could learn more from the exams. So we let him.
We kind of randomly put some top grammar schools that he’s eligible on the SCAF (haven’t even visited all these schools), thinking to see which ones he can be offered then decide where to move to… Now, we have received an offer of one of these, but still have a chance to change our preferences (as he’s likely to be offered via any of the waiting list if there is any space becomes available), so thinking to seeking some advice of schools and especially areas for relocation.
Many thanks.

I would not be so sure of waiting lists especially for those with limited ooc spaces. Presumably you got a place at one of those you listed higher. Maybe you should stick with that rather than gamble.

Echoing PP - do not assume you will get a place from a waiting list and, if you do, you may be waiting until close to September to be sure of a place. Do you really want months of uncertainty and having to postpone moving until last minute?

Just accept the place you've been offered unless you really dislike it.

And presumably you did not list all those on your CAF.

Which one have you actually been allocated? Why are you trying to shop for a supposedly even better one by asking strangers? You should have done the research and visited the areas before October.

If you want to live in Essex vs you want to live in Tonbridge in Kent, this is really something you should have addressed before.
Then Sutton is another whole suburban feel.
The Central London kids do travel on trains to St Olave’s in Orpington and Wilson’s and QE. So did he sit these and might you get anyway one of them. Why move out of Central London just for a school. I would not and I have had kids attend grammars. Essex/West Kent is a very different lifestyle.

I’m somewhat confused. Have you had an offer from a grammar school for your now Year 6 child for this coming September?

If you have, do not fall into the trap of thinking that you can go on to a school’s waiting list and get in that way. Judd, for example, might have a small amount of movement between now and July. Perhaps if some boys decide to take up a place at Sevenoaks instead. But I wouldn’t bank on it.

You will struggle to get a waiting list place at KEGS Chelmsford. My experience is that the wait list has little movement.

Thank you all for your sharing.

Yes, I have to admit we are a comparably relaxed and “lastminute.com” family. (Still need to book somewhere for Easter holiday 😅）

We are super satisfied and delighted to his amazing achievement, especially considering the not-so-much amount of preparation he did. His current grammar school offer is one of these fantastic schools that we were blown away on their opening day. Some people argued about the real super selective schools or not, that’s not what we focused or cared, we only like the idea that some top schools do give opportunities to some kids regardless of their current/temporary address. Academic results/position on the league table is also not our only measurement (If that counts, the only difference is just the bottom 10-20% students who might suddenly faced some difficulties or have not even been allocated through the general admission pathway). No matter to himself or to us, it’s not an end but only a beginning. Life is long, secondary is just a small potato comparing to the rest of the journey.

However, not like those super rich people, buying a dream house is a huge decision for us from outside of UK, as it’s gonna empty all the years of savings that earned through our hard working. We are not moving because of school; instead, we always wanted to buy a house with garden but were lost in the land in all the previous years as nothing is attractive enough within the budget. UK houses are too expensive, especially London.

So, now, a perfect excuse/incentive to help us to make decision about where to buy, but “unfortunately” he’s eligible for “too many” which is totally over our expectations. Thus, we created this post for seeking sort of advices from “strangers”, and of course, we will still have to decide by ourselves.

Although it’s very late to ask around opinions and very little possibilities for spaces from waiting list, it maybe just another “lastminute.com” of our family tradition 😅 in case we will face that situation to choose in between the current offer or a potentially better location of new home in the second/relocation round.

But you won’t get that choice, the system is not set up to give you options, you will be lucky to get even one more from wl. Some areas limit how many wl you can request. Do you even want to live in these places? Why not just focus on the one in hand and look for property within a reasonable commute of there? If you state which and an idea of budget you will get advice on areas accessible to the school and for commuting into the city (Dartford for example is not that quick by rail nor is Tonbridge).

Oh, so it won’t be that all the schools that we asked our LA to add onto their WL will give us a position /result? Seriously no idea how the UK system works.
Yes, I think you maybe correct, just focus on our current one and checking for property and commute. (We know little about any areas outside central London, or even within)
Will it be wiser to rent first to get to know that particular area before buying?

Which school have you actually got an offer from?

You need to check with LA you applied through but potentially not. Different areas apply different limits. Did he even sit for all those schools and “pass”? Was the one he was offered your first choice?

No. You might get no places from waiting lists. People can sit on them for years (and still never get a place). Particularly if it requires multiple children to turn down places at highly sought after schools.

I would get to know the area that's commutable (to school and to your jobs) and decide where you want to live. And yes, it might be preferable to rent first to find out more about the area.

Have you accepted the place that has been offered?

You must accept that place or you will lose it.

In a couple of weeks , once places have been accepted or not, they should be able to tell you where you are on the waiting list if they have not done that already.

This is the system:

You listed 6 schools as preferences on your application
Your Local Authority allocated you the school that was highest up your list that was able to make you an offer.
If that school was your first preference they will not have put you on any waiting lists.
If you were not offered your top preference you should automatically be on the waiting list for each school that was higher up your list
You can now make applications and go on the waiting list for schools not on your original list of 6

As others have said there may be little or no movement on waiting lists.

You have 5 months to move house. This is very tight if you need to sell and buy so you may need to rent anyway. Realistically surely you need to set a deadline when you will stop waiting for a waiting list place and start looking for somewhere to live!

If you’ve got the budget, I’d look at Beaulieu, Chelmsford. It’s a huge new build estate but has a really nice feel to it.

Its just under 40 minutes to Liverpool Street, and your son could commute by train or bus to KEGS.

Chelmsford itself is lovely and has plenty going for it for a date night/night out if you don’t want to stay in the city.

And as far as how the system works, most families decide where they want to live long term, based on jobs, schools, lifestyle, friends, family links etc, move if necessary then apply to schools in the local area at least some of which are a realistic chances of getting a place. Most of UK does not have state grammar schools but instead uses a comprehensive(mixed ability) system. Relatively fewer apply to several selectives in multiple areas and then move. If you do not have a school place but move and are relying on wl or a late application the Local Authority may offer a place at any local school with a space, not necessarily of your choosing or near your address. You may move up a wl by living nearer the school but there is still no guarantee you will get a place.

Im really confused. The essex grammers you mention are highly selective/competitive - inparticular KEGS and CRGS. Do you have an out of catchment offer?? If not then it is not worth moving. Westcliff is slightly easier to get into, but the Out of catchment score is high so do not move if you dont have an offer

I'm not sure I'd describe a daily commute from Central London to Colchester for school (and CRGS is a long trek from the main railway station) as 'not worth moving' for. KEGS an easier prospect, true, depending on how easy the journey to Liverpool Street or Stratford. But bear in mind that the Chelmsford grammar schools introduced their priority admissions area because they were fed up with parents sending their DC on ridiculous journeys to school, said DC dozing off regularly in class and contributing nothing to the life of the school outside of the classroom.

It would be easier to advise if you said which school he has an offer from.