How to choose between these grammar schools and nearby family areas?

[L186]

According to your experience and knowledge, how will/did you choose from the following grammar schools if your DS qualified for them? also considering if the surrounding areas are safe, convenient and nice to live for families. Moving nearby to the school is one of the idea in the near future; it’s also one of the important elements to result the final decision. I’m sure all the schools are fantastic in different criteria. The matter is down to which one fits the child and family the best.

Offering OOC places with enough scores:

• Dartford Grammar school,
• The Judd School,
• Sutton Grammar School,
• Wallington county grammar school,
• Colchester Royal Grammar school,
• Westcliff high school for boys,

Need to move into their designated areas:

• The Latymer school,
• King Edward VI grammar school Chelmsford,

Any thoughts, facts, experiences and opinions are welcome.

Now, we have received an offer of one of these, but still have a chance to change our preferences (as he’s likely to be offered via any of the waiting list if there is any space becomes available),

No, you do not have a chance now to change your preferences.

Your posts are a little hard to follow but I think you mean that you did go to an open day at the school you were allocated and it was fantastic and blew you away. That’s excellent! Go there!

I assume you are renting in London and hopefully on 1-2 months notice. Start looking for a rental that suits your commute and the school in question, snap it up asap if you find one, even if one of you moves out there to get settled whilst the other stays with your son in town to finish his term and give your landlord notice.

Indeed. If Judd is the offer, I can advise on Tonbridge/Sevenoaks/Bidborough etc. But no clue about the other areas.

OP I am sorry, but you are being greedy and unfair on the local children in all of these schools, some waiting desperately for a place. I do not buy the last minute.com stuff. You have come to this country please be happy with what you have been allocated and not so greedy to find the “best” location or school etc. Your DS sounds very academic and will do well in whichever one of these schools you end up in. You still have not said which one you were actually allocated. I know a lot about most of these schools but I am not going to share the information with you because you are being unfair on other local children, and potentially wasting the time of the local authority on top of that. If you are no happy now, then if you are offered another waiting list place, what will you do then? Waste some more time. They usually give you just 24 hours to take it.

The Government need to change the rules around grammar schools. I think applications to grammar schools more than 1 hour by reasonable commuting distance from application point should me made illegal.
When we did grammar tests last year there were overseas people from India sending their kids for tests. This is not OK. UK state schools and the NHS should not be subject to health and education tourism to this level. There were people from Manchester sitting London grammar schools tests. Some parents are simply nuts and it is not fair on the children or anyone.

Judd has an an amazing reputation and Tonbridge has a good train service to London. If your offer is for that school and your son likes it, I’d take it.

@Araminta1003 in what way is OP being greedy and unfair? She is currently holding one secondary school place, just as every other primary school parent in the country is doing. She is (if she has requested it!) on the waiting list for other schools that she may prefer. If a waitlist place comes up, she will have to decide between the places. This is no different to thousands of parents across England, other than in OP's case, it's probably less likely that a waitlist place will come up than in an 'average' application.

(Given she and her DH were here for a Masters, the birth and primary education of her DS, I would guess she has been in the UK 10-15 years, paying university fees and then working, so "you have come to this country, please be happy" is rather... unreasonable)

@SheilaFentiman - there is no limit to how many grammar school tests a child is allowed to sit. The only thing that prevents too many is common sense or date clashes.
Essentially, people with very bright kids who can get into the top grammar schools, can of course get into most grammar schools all over the country. For initial allocation you are given the choice of 6 schools in London. Although if you have a high achiever who already sat let’s say 4 different tests, you could have put far more schools down. Most people apply common sense and decide which one is their favourite before October of year 6 and have one or two back ups, including 1 comprehensive.
If every single person who has a high achiever added their child’s name to all the waiting lists all over, and sat their kids for loads of tests, what exactly would happen. It is unethical. The system is already very tolerant allowing all these applications. Kent spends so much money every year allowing thousands of external applicants to sit tests.
I think the OP is being unreasonable and enjoying the fact their DC did well and the ego and power trip it gives them. Their indecision is not just indecision. Also the comments about last minute holidays. I mean for God sake, go visit the areas which you should have done ages ago. It is sort of feigned faux incompetence masquerading unethical behaviour.

And @SheilaFentiman - for comprehensives, whilst of course you can add your child’s name to loads of waiting lists in theory, most people won’t because they know there are address criteria.
In addition, the OP has known the results of her DS since September/October anyway and could have visited and done the leg work ages ago. It is pretty clear for eg Sutton, they email you which schools you have qualified for in theory. If the child is as smart as he or she claims, they would have qualified for Wilsons.
For Kent, if you get more than 400 you know you have a chance at Dartford/Judd etc. They have been sitting on the info for months and should have visited and made a decision ages ago.

For KEGS Chelmsford my understanding is that for an in catchment area place your child needs to be living within the prescribed area from 10 October of year 6. So you are not going to get an in catchment place there unless you have lived in that priority catchment area since 10 October.

It is also possible that this poster is another of those foreign education consultant fishing for information. Like I said, there appears to be some international exam tourism going on which I completely object to as a British taxpayer. There is too much not adding up.

I don’t understand how they can be holding offers in London, Essex, Surrey, Kent if they don’t live in those areas.

Also if you got offered your first choice in the area you won’t be on the waiting list for the other schools. It doesn’t make sense.

Some grammar schools are 'distance blind' and offer some or all places just based on score.

But OP is not actually holding multiple offers - she will be holding one offer and possibly on the waiting list of others.

The idea behind some of the superselectives not having distance criteria was not intended to enable exam tourism. In most cases, it is because they are located in built up areas, for example in and around London or the South East, and have a local main line station, which theoretically means that children from a wide area could easily travel in. So instead of limiting places to those living within 10 miles or so, they decided to exercise flexibility. Sometimes you can live 15 miles away but the train journey itself is shortish as the main line station enables that.
However, the more people abuse the system, the more they end up cutting the superselective places. So Dartford Grammar just cut a whole lot of out of area last year. There won’t be any left at this point if people keep doing this kind of thing. The places are meant for bright kids within a reasonable commuting distance, not meant for exam shopping or system gaming.

Trying to decipher the OP’s situation feels like an 11+ question in itself.

Which school have you been offered and what are your thoughts about moving to an area that would give your child a reasonable journey to school?

Which is the other school you think you are still in scope for, and same question for the location? Is the location considerably better for your family that you’d gamble on a wait list?

Thank you all for your kindness.

If we are one of these most families, this post won’t need to be exist.
There is no other family links, jobs can WFH, friends are not too many and all over the place. Basically there is no strong restrictions to tie us up in a certain place.
One of us grow in big city from country A prefers bustling lifestyle; one grow with quiet forest in a chic village of country B, preferring idyllic, although we both are adaptable.
Five years ago( or even longer), we’ve started to looking for houses (I think the searching criteria was 20 miles to great London) regardless the locations, grammars etc but no luck with limited budget, or no immediate need to push us to make a compromised decision.
Before sitting on the exams, we won’t know if DS could possibly pass or get an offer as he’s not those super talented or super hardworking type. Although he seems doing fine at school but that’s a school in the bottom 30% of all the London state primary schools. Especially with a suspected mild dyslexia and ADHD, we won’t know where he can sit among the whole cohort.
We are not alone! Quite a few of his schoolmates went on the similar journey as us. Sat on a few different exams, wait to see where is the hope. Due to our location, all the other grammar boroughs are in kind of equal distance.
As I mentioned, kids in his school are from everywhere and very international. Now we heard some of his schoolmates will go back to their mother countries for secondary school and then maybe come back later for University. Some will go to private schools in other boroughs. Some have moved or will move to different areas for the grammar or non-grammar schools: Bexley, Kent, Essex, Sutton, Surrey, Oxford, Cambridge, even North England…. You name it. About less than half are staying and going to somewhere nearby.
So for someone’s abnormal or strong opinion to the extent of “illegal”,“unethical”, it’s so common around us.
There are also people who living at the location of a border of multiple selective schools took several different exams as there is no general ones for all of them, ie in North London: QE, Latymer, HBS, DAO, SWH; In Southwest London: Sutton, Tiffin; In Southeast London:Bexley, Kent, Medway…. It’s so common for people to take more than one exams due to their situation.
But we respect and understand, if we are local or live in a grammar area and have no intention to relocate, join that one exam and go to the nearest school will be enough.

Just to answer some questions and ease some arguments.
Love & Peace

Ahahaha that answered no questions or eased no arguments 😀

For which school are you holding an offer, OP?

Thank you everyone for your help.
For us, (and hope it’s useful for others who might in a similar situation now or the near future)

Rule out areas:
Latymer
won’t have enough time to move in.
KEGS
need to move in at the beginning of year 6
CRGS, Westcliff
too far from London
Considering areas:
Wallington, Sutton,
Nice and friendly welcome feeling from comments, have trains to London. How about the general housing price range for a 3/4 beds house semi or detached with good sized garden?
Dartford
Not much info yet, but transport is not too fast or convenient into London? how about the living area and price?
Judd
Nice and friendly welcome feeling from comments, but transport is not too fast or convenient into London?
Of course, we can and for sure will do the price checking, house hunting ourselves.

We don’t mind DS walk or take public transport within 15-30mins to school, alternatively, can have a 20 mins safe cycling routes to school as he loves it.

So, if you are living there or have kids studying there, do you feel safe, diverse and inclusive?

Our major feeling in central London is it’s becoming less safe than before, much more crimes happening, especially robbery, mobile phone grabbing, bicycle/car stealing, teenager ganging etc.

OP - you are more likely to get advice if you say which school you have been offered.

As we have all said you are unlikely to get a place on the waiting list on any other school, so advice on other locations is a bit of a waste.

We are holding an offer of the Kent school (not too many spaces for general OOC, don’t want to risk to reveal identity), a bit dilemma in between these two schools vs areas, and now also thinking if Sutton is a better area to live in case WL offer becomes available.
So far, I feel Sutton and Judd areas are welcome, not much from Dartford.
But of course this is just one source of this topic from this forum.
We research from other sources at the meantime. Thank you.

Do you currently have an offer at either Sutton Grammar or Wallington? If you do, these schools are some of the best located for commute times to Central London, although house prices may be higher than some areas, due to being relatively close in. It's more suburban than some of the other areas, which can be a pro or con, but may be less of a change from Central London and easier to travel back to see friends etc.

You won't get many people who can compare all areas, as most people will only apply in 1 or 2 areas. As my username suggests, I know Sutton quite well, but not the others. I can give my thoughts on areas/housing there, but I think at this point you need to commit to researching the area around the school already you have. I would only go on waiting lists for other schools if you feel strongly at this point. Otherwise you will potentially get other waiting list offers and then have to make quick decisions about which place to take. If your first choice was a school you really liked at the time, then trust that decision! It sounds like you have a bright, well-rounded boy who will do well at any of these schools.

Edited to say, I was writing this before your final post. I now see you have a Kent school, not a Sutton one.

Right so you’re holding Dartford or Judd. There are fast trains from Tonbridge into London - around 35 minutes. They go into London Bridge/Charing Cross.
Dartford also takes longer as they tend to stop more. However somewhere like Bexleyheath which has a few faster trains and you can get a bus to the school may work better. Orpington has a bus into Dartford and a fast train service into London. If you need fast trains - look at somewhere near Ebsfleet (you’ll pay more for the commute though.) Dartford is patchy some nice bits and some not so nice bits!
Just beware of the suburban train line trap - it can often take longer because the stations have stopping trains where as further out the trains are faster as they come straight in.

Tonbridge area is 93% white according to the Census and they voted in Reform in Kent.
Sutton is much more mixed with 43% minority but I think as it is suburbia less kids move constantly and so your DS will settle into friendships. Your focus should be on him making life long friends and settling into his life, in a safe environment. The school itself is less of an issue. Quality in all these grammars is very similar. The one thing to note though is Dartford still only does International Baccalaureate, that may or may not change in next few years.
Judd is a great school but definitely far more of a white preppy feel to it than the others you have listed.

Do you have any idea where you are on the waiting list for Sutton? Because it would be best just to make a decision and start making your living arrangements for Kent.

Thank you so much!
What made me swinging the most are people like you! I found most people comment from Sutton are very nice and calm.
DS and us participated in many volunteer jobs/activities in charities for years, from cleaning river to delivering language and art lessons to local kids. We love to live in a welcoming community. These feelings are hard to research from cold online data of the school results.

Housing in Sutton / Wallington probably £600k min for 3 bed semi up to 950k 4 bed.

I'm going out now, but can post my thoughts on the pros and cons of Sutton soon.