Child currently without a school place

[Pamela7814]

Hi there

My child is currently not in education - she has been at home waiting for a year 9 school place since October.

Bit of background - my daughter is bright but got overwhelmed at the 11+ exam and didn't pass the English score. She was offered a comprehensive school that wasn't in our area (due to local school being heavily oversubscribed) so she took tests at an independent school which she scored highly in and received a Heads Award (discounted fees) to attend there. We decided that's where she would go - it wasn't as though we had a pot of cash, it was always going to be hard, but with the increase in VAT fees it proved to be impossible and we eventually had to withdraw her.

She was naturally very upset at leaving her school - she thrives in a school setting and has always loved school.

Once she was without a school place, she was offered a school by the local borough. The school she was offered is a bus ride away (so nothing out of the ordinary there) but requires improvement in all areas and having read the Offsted in full and spoken at length with my aunt who worked there, and parents of children who attended, we rejected the offer. I also spoke to a contact dealing with children lost in education and she agreed that this school would likely be to her detriment. My daughter was adamant she did not want to attend this school (I believe her and her friends have had trouble on buses with some children from here).

She is currently first on the waiting list at the local school (she has 2 siblings there) but an appeal held last week was rejected. I haven't received the reasons yet but I'm thinking it's because they believe I have put all my eggs in one basket and not applied to other schools.

Another bit of background - my daughter has been referred by the doctor regarding her anxiety. It's been a anxious time for her not knowing if or when she will get a school place and she is constantly worried about this - since she's been off of school she has been bed wetting, getting stomach aches and biting her nails (also mentioned in front of the doctor that she cries before going to sleep often). I feel like I have to tread carefully as she is only wanting to attend this one school, stressing that she wants to be with her siblings and friends currently at the school (by friends, I mean children she knew from primary school and shares the odd text message with). She also wants to be local and gets very upset when I mention listing her at other schools.

As it happens, I called other schools after the appeal hearing (just for information) and all are full with waiting lists in the area, except the one offered.

I'm sorry this is so long, I would just appreciate any advice at all on what I can be doing in the meantime while we just sit here waiting and hoping (and her getting more anxious). I haven't got the money for online school at the moment. I have books, ixl and am using oak online classes but her focus is waning and I'm so worried that she isn't socialising.

Some people have said that it's really year 10 and 11 that matter (GCSE's) but I don't even know if she'll have a place by then, and how much damage will have been done by that point. I have a full time job that have allowed me to work at home so that I can be with her, but I need to keep this job and this isn't an arrangement I can sustain.

I still feel that a place at the school offered would cause far more upset than it would cure.

Any advice would be gratefully received - even if it's to tell me there are far bigger things to stress about. If anyone has been, or is in, a similar position I'd love to hear from you.

Thank you if you read this far....

You can appeal in y10 but obviously that is getting close to gcses. And you would need stronger arguments. The rejection of other school is not the same as there being other schools which would meet her needs. Logically it implies that the alternative place is as good for her but turning it down is not why you lost.

Thank you for coming back to me. Sorry if I'm being dim here, would the fact that I hadn't listed her at other schools and known at the time of the appeal that she was far further down the list (I did already think that would be the case but didn't have any factual information at that point) have made a difference to my case?

Say she was on the waiting list at other schools, further away and much further down on their waiting list - all at full capacity. Them saying that there are other schools suitable is true, but irrelevant (in my opinion) if they don't have space either. If I was able to say at the appeal that this was the case, would they have looked at it differently? Did I mess up not having this information at the time of the appeal do you think?

It doesn't help me at this point, but I'm just trying to understand.

No I don’t think it made any difference. The appeal decision was based upon there being no compelling evidence for her needing a place at that particular school to outweigh any negative impact of an additional pupil on the existing pupils and teaching. If there were no spaces anywhere at all you might be able to use Fair Access Protocol but refusing the available place negates that.

Thank you. I started to question my well informed choice of not sending her to the offered school so went to see it yesterday (still has space - the only school that does). Can say with full confidence that we'd end up with a far more anxious child if she went there. It's simply not an option we can pursue, which is a shame.

I'm going to look into the grammar test option just to cover everything I can. We've had some good conversations over the weekend and we're a little more positive this week.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. It's a no win situation at the moment and we just have to do what we can to keep on top of the work and social side.

Do you know when your first choice school starts the GCSE curriculum? If it's at the start of Year 10, I agree you probably have a good chance of a place coming up - secondary schools are big places and the start of GCSEs is a natural point for parents to get their arses in gear if they've been wanting to move for a while - it's basically now or wait two years (or longer if you have younger siblings). I also agree that if any places do come up, it's likely to be in September.
If they start the GCSE curriculum in Year Nine, I think your chances are much smaller, honestly. Parents will try to keep their child at the same school if they possibly can. Schools are also much more reluctant to take children once GCSEs have started. In fact, our local grammar only accepts in-year applications from year 7- year 9 for this reason.
You should also ask if the year group is over PAN or not. If they've already accepted other children on appeal, you're not just waiting for one child to leave IYSWIM - it won't be one in one out, they'll wait until they're below PAN before taking children from the waiting list.
I think looking at in year applications for grammar schools and getting on other waiting lists is a good idea - it sounds like you're unlikely to get a place, but you never know.
It might also be worth going back to the private school and seeing if there's any chance of a bursary for your daughter. You never know if you don't ask, and they know her personally, which is (hopefully) in her favour.

This sounds so difficult. I do think though you have given her an option - homeschool or go to this school. So you have given her an out and she’s taken it as will sense you feel you need to offer it. I’m not sure you can go back on that but it’s a massive decision to make based on not knowing how she’ll get on……and I just don’t feel as others have said this is “just her choice” - the options you have given suggest there is an issue……

@Pamela7814 if you say roughly which part of London you're in (I'm assuming London because you used the word 'borough') people might be able to point you to a school with spaces e.g. Look at relatively new free schools that sometimes take a while to fill because they are growing one year at a time in temporary accommodation or haven't yet had their first full Ofsted inspection.

They start GCSE's in year 10. They are at PAN in year 9 (not over) but I was surprised when they mentioned other years and they are under in years 8 and 10 (not currently over in any other year groups). Obviously that doesn't help the year I want but it did surprise me that year 10 was under PAN (by 2). I would have thought that there would be waiting lists in every year. Made me wonder if the school had to disclose to the council if they go under PAN or not 🤔(surely they do?).

Yes, I just have to do everything I can to get her back to socialising again. I feel like we can cover the education side of things - it won't be easy but it's possible. The social side is what is worrying me the most right now.

When we first called a meeting with the private school, it was mentioned about a bursary but it was pretty much just pay the fees over a longer term. I think the school is suffering financially too if I'm honest - although that's speculative, (based on the open days they are often having more recently and the impression we got during our meeting).

"Made me wonder if the school had to disclose to the council if they go under PAN or not 🤔(surely they do?)."

@Pamela7814 the PAN only formally applies to the normal year of entry (year 7 in this case). The school can tell the LA they are formally reducing their admission number for other year groups if they wish to, but most don't because they need to be as full as possible for financial reasons. The common exception might be in year 11, because many schools don't want the disruption of admitting new students, though they are likely to wait until after the October school census day before making the reduction (because this is the formal count that dictates their funding).

Whether or not they formally reduce their admission number below PAN, they do need to tell the LA about any leavers.

I have only had one conversation with the Education Welfare Service so far. They were very helpful and agreed that the school offered was not appropriate.
The case has been referred to the CME who are due to make contact with me in due course. I'm not sure when that will be.

If you’re looking for cheaper options than kings online. The two pound tuition hub is good, plus maths genie and corbet maths are really good free gcse maths online. There’s loads of you tube free videos walking you through English specs. Plus south west sciences do really good value gcse sciences. We were forced into HomeEd in year8 and now prepping for first 3 iGCSEs this year taking them year early and then taking more next year. There’s lots of information on face book groups for HomeEd. You can easily keep her learning going cheaply if you’re keen to wait for a school place.

Thank you for clarifying this. So, if a child does leave in the current year group, they would let the council know? Do you know if they have a timeframe to let them know?

People are always telling me to 'keep calling' / 'be a pest' but I'd like to think that the process is followed without me badgering. I do check in with the council every couple of weeks to see if we are still 1st as I know that can also change, but I never understand what people mean when they say to keep calling. I'm hoping that if the school becomes 1 below PAN, as long as my daughter is 1st, we will hear about it from the council. Surely I'm safe to trust the process 🤔

Thank you for all this info - really appreciated. I was hoping to cover as much as we can without any further expense (already in pickle financially) so we will check these out over the next few weeks of this term (and the facebook support groups).

Good luck with the iGCSE's! 👌

Just trust the process. You can't speed it up and, apart from the y11 circumstance I mentioned above, schools are incentivised to fill spaces asap when they arise. The only caveat is that, when a child leaves, they can't de-register them until they know they have either registered elsewhere or completely left the geographical area, so they might 'know' a space is coming up a few days before it is actually formally available. If you pestered, then an indiscrete admissions clerk might give you a heads up, but it won't accelerate anything, and its just as likely that they would get annoyed and stonewall you.

Thank you for this. Really helpful to know.

The school being under PAN in some year groups might be useful counter arguments if you decide to appeal next academic year, e.g if the school argues they can’t accommodate an additional pupil because of canteen space or corridor flow.

However it couldn’t form the basis of your appeal. If you do decide to appeal again then post a fresh thread on here for advice, there’s some fantastic experts on this board.

Other children could be given preference, for example some children of Crown employees, or armed forces children are given priority, and children living closer to the school could be prioritised if that criteria is placed higher than siblings.

Thank you - yes, I wish I'd got advice on here before the appeal to be honest.

I really feel for you. Regardless of your reasons, the LA have met their obligations, but it does sound like your DD is very anxious in general. Have you taken her to the GP and requested a CAMHS referral?

I'm wondering if you've contacted any of the home ed groups? There are some quite successful groups running in some areas.

If you decide to appeal again, you might have most success by emphasising her mental health difficulties and the bullying incidents on the bus (this is the one time where arguing 'against' a specific school is necessary, along with arguing for the preferred school).

Realistically she will be put into the sets closest to her ability that have space. Just because a school RI does not mean that it has bright high achieving children.

@Pamela7814 I asked about sibling priority and Thankyou for clarifying.
Really tough situation you are in and hope it resolves

I’ll be honest, just reading this as an outsider, your daughter is understandably anxious because she knows as an ex private school kid, moving to a LA school which requires improvement she is very likely to get picked on at first. Even if that doesn’t ultimately end up being the case, I’m sure she’s aware that it’s quite likely which isn’t helping her at all. I don’t think it’s fair on her that she had to be removed from somewhere it seems she was ultimately happy, and I think her anxiety about all of this is understandable. It’s a really shit situation for her, and she’s at that pubescent age where things are already tough enough. Do you have the means to homeschool her? If she falls behind it almost makes the money spent until now on private school money wasted. Can you get tutors on rotation with the money you would’ve spent to at least maintain her core subjects?

Yes the doctor has referred her and we are waiting for an appointment.

I'm taking some time off of work next week to join some groups and get any help and advice, and join lots of advice groups for home ed.

I wish I had just mentioned the bullying on the bus but there were many things I didn't say and I may be wrong, but I do feel like they already know their answer before the hearing. I was conscious at the time not to run the other school (that we were offered) down and concentrate on why she was so keen to go to her sibling's school and be local but they didn't ask anything about her well-being (even though they knew about her referral) and to me, it just made sense that a child (with or without anxiety) should be in a school (rather than at home), locally, with her siblings, and at a school that would help her thrive academically.

It still makes no sense to me why she's sat at home when all we hear is how hard it is to get many children to school, but then the argument to that will always be 'well you were offered a school'. Other departments within the council agree that it would not be a positive move, and as her Mum I know it wouldn't, but it will always work against us.

Well you've read it exactly how it is.

It's not fair on her at all. As her parents, we are obviously worried and absolutely gutted that we've had to pull her out of a school she loves because we just can't earn the money quick enough (trust that we've tried), but ultimately she is the one that's suffering here and it's likely that will be long term.

Even with that in mind, we can't just be desperate here and send her to a school that we know will make the situation worse. These things sound so easy on paper. When I was telling my friends how hard it was paying for the school they would collectively say 'you're mad, take her out of there!' as if it was a really easy decision (knowing it was taking its toll on us), but now she's without a school for the inevitable.

We are still paying for private school (they allowed us to spread payments) which is a big chunk still but we're hoping we can get the money together for a term of home school so she doesn't miss another term. It's the last thing I think about before going to sleep and the first thing I wake up worrying about and I dare say she feels the same. The whole situation is a complete mess.