I don't really get the new GCSE grading....

[AuntieMatters]

Everyone keeps saying that 7 is an A and 8 an A star and 9 A double star?

But then there is this other narrative sometimes, in posts on here and conversations elsewhere, that treats anything less than a 7 like it would be a really poor grade....

Certainly for my son's chosen subjects at 6th form he needs " at least a 7" and he and his teachers feel he should aim for 9s across the board

I don't mind him having high aspirations but I just feel like there's mixed messaging about what the grades really mean?

I think this is what is confusing me, I definitely recalled reading when the new grading was introduced that 9s would be very much exceptional.

Thanks that's what my instinct was telling me so it's interesting to hear your views as someone who teaches in the sector

I hope you are also aware that the new GCSEs are more similar to the old O levels than the GCSEs you probably did. Most subjects have no coursework, and exams are terminal at end of y11, no modular and no resitting. So revision skills are important and you can't leave it all until the last minute as the exam timetable is packed.

Its about 5% of grades per subject. I guess it depends on whether exceptional can include 5% of people or it should only be 0.5%.

Something like only 1200 students gained straight grade 9s though. So its not that common to get straight 9s.

My school even in the 90s only let us do gcses that involved no coursework and no resitting.
I know though that when I got to university there were a lot of people who really floundered because they've been to schools where they were able to resit modules again and again until they got the grades they wanted. So to me this is a positive change really because it was astonishing to see how some people had been absolutely coached all the way through to university and then fell apart

Grade comparison chart old / new grades for info

Over the weekend there was a thread about BTECs. There are more options at 16 than just A Levels.

I’m not sure what exceptional means TBH.

In a non selective school/ college I think a 7 is rightly seen as great .

In my childs’s superselective grammar, in the 2013 cohort the top 3 sets of maths ( of 4) all got 9s in maths.

Having applied to Oxford, at that time, no real distinction was made between 8s and 9s. At least not in the subjects not being applied for.

It may be different now

The mapping is a/a is 7-9, so most people think a 9 is a, a high eight is also an a* but a low 8 would be a good A, and a 7 is an A.

same for 4-6 is B and C with the same type of mapping as above.

etc

Same here. Not been on my radar until now

Many employers, colleges and apprenticeships won't accept a 4. Some will, but it's not seen as a valuable grade, just a very low basic pass.

5 is the benchmark.

Grade inflation meams you could only compare at the point of conversion. A double A star is what an A star was 10 years ago and what an A was 10 years before that. Any comparison to the letter system of 10 years ago is pointless.

Numbers is more sensible as at some point they will be able to add a 10 rather than just a crazy number of stars.

Ok that thank you that's quite helpful to know.
I recruit a lot of people but they usually have postgrad degrees so I don't pay an awful lot of attention to GCSE and they always tend to be pretty stellar. But this is useful for my dyslexic child I think she can aim for a five or six in English if she really works at it and gets enough support. (That said, she has a huge amount of drive and creative energy and I can envisage her working for herself in the future anyway rather than needing to convince an employer of her abilities. I think she'll be like her dad who out earns me even though he doesn't have very impressive grades at all - he turned his "hobby" into a very well paying career)

Surely though that means a 4 really isn't the equivalent of an old C because an old C would have been seen as perfectly acceptable by most employers ?

I think you're almost certainly right but what frustrates me is that this doesn't seem to have been accepted by so many people. For instance on the threads on here if someone says they aren't happy with their child getting less than a seven they will be told "but a 7 is an A"

Likewise I don't think communications from secondary schools are spelling this out. Although it can clearly be inferred from the minimum expectations from sixth forms etc

And then you go back to A B C etc for A levels 🤯

I think that is a sweeping incorrect mass generalisation.
For many getting the 4 is the required benchmark and the 4 is very valuable.

Peter Symonds college in Winchester (highly regarded) Requirements for Biology A level:

5 GCSEs at grade 4 or above, including English and one of the following combinations:

• If you are studying separate sciences you are required to achieve GCSE grades 6, 6 and 5 (any order) in Biology, one other science and Mathematics
• If you are studying Combined Science you are required to achieve GCSE grades 6, 6 and 5 (any order) in Combined Science and Mathematics

So grade 4 English (but obviously more for maths as Biology is a STEM subject)

And History A level:

5 GCSEs at grade 4 or above, including Mathematics and English.
It is not a requirement to have studied History at GCSE provided you have an interest in the subject.

Vocational College in Southampton:

Level 3 Civil Engineering Technician Apprenticeship

You will need to have relevant employment, and entry is subject to interview and assessment.
GCSE English and maths grade 4/C or above (or Level 2 functional skills) are preferred

Given that Apprenticeships can be at at least Level 2, Level 3, or Degree level, making generalisations about 'what is needed for apprenticeships' is unhelpful

I wish they’d just left the bloody grade names alone! All anyone does is compare them anyway to work out what it means!

Our local 6th Form requires 5s with 6s in the subjects they're doing for A Level.
Local FE college requires 4s for a level 3 course.

Sounds like your school just has very high requirements.

To say that a 7 and above is the only grades worth having is frankly elitist and undermines the very hard work some put in to get level 4 grades. My DD worked really hard but she isn’t academic but she got enough 4s to get into college and is doing fine. I recognise for maths and the sciences that wouldn’t be enough but for her it was fine. No one will bat an eyelid once she has her next set of qualifications. The pressure kids are put under is why mental health is so poor.

This isn't my view, I've just seen it said so many times on here and elsewhere and it's left me quite confused!

Some people, of which there has been one on this thread, are elitist when it comes to GCSE results and seemingly have no idea what is actually required for progression to a variety of routes.

(Some selective six form schools also ask for very high GCSE grades, because they can, and it keeps their A level results up.)

I think MN is disproportionately full of parents of very academic children going to selective schools. They have lost sight of the fact that an 7 is a very good grade as their children are at a school where a 7 is commonplace.

Also, I do think lots of parents just think their children "should" be getting the highest grade, which is of course 9, and are forgetting that the "new" grading system was designed to distinguish between the very good and extremely good. I have family members who consider my nephew's GCSE grades of 8 9s and 2 8s to be "appalling", for example.

Sorry OP I wasn’t clear. Sorry if I appeared rude! I know it isn’t your view but it frustrates me hugely.

What I would say is that when we looked round sixth forms and colleges. Sixth forms in schools often wanted much higher grades than colleges and independent sixth form colleges. The cynic in me thinks this is because it’s easier to get good results from students who are very academic and then they can attract students in future years. Schools obviously need bums on seats for funding.

Understood!
All the state sixth forms in our county separate from secondary schools so we don't have the option of carrying on through.
In fairness we are only looking at the top couple in the county so I guess I haven't really thought about what the grade requirements elsewhere, but we've chosen our options as much on geography as anything else so the other colleges didn't really factor into our decision making