Student at (virtual) parents’ evenings - secondary

[LetItGoToRuin]

Are we alone/unusual in not having our DD present during progress evenings in secondary?

We feel that, as we get only 4½ minutes with each teacher per year, the teachers will offer more honest and efficient feedback if they are not dressing up their comments for the student’s benefit.

Only one teacher has ever asked whether DD can hear this conversation and has then spoken very openly when we said she could not. No other teacher has commented either way, but we always felt we received very frank feedback. The school doesn’t express a preference.

I suspect we’re in the minority. What do others do, and why? Does the approach change as they get older?

I always liked to have the student there (tho tbf this was face to face – it helped bc the student knew who their teacher was in a room of faces!). I would usually include them in the convo in some way. I certainly never dressed up comments for the students' benefit!

I used to take my DC and I don’t think anyone ever held back on feedback tbh.

I feel that having my child there on camera means the teacher is more likely to give feedback about the correct student!

Students are expected to attend at dc school. To be fair it’s another step on the road to maturity, receiving and accepting feedback and understating how things can improve. They will have a far better understanding of what is being discussed than you do and it helps build into a process they would be expected to engage with in a work environment.

Bigger question is why wouldn’t you want them there?

That’s true @MountainBiker

I don’t think secondary school teachers are going to say anything to you in a parent’s evening that they would not say in front of the child. If there is such a major issue that they can’t talk about it in front of the child, or that can’t be discussed in four and a half minutes, then the teacher would invite you to another meeting to talk about that.

I think it’s a positive experience for the child to hear the teacher talk to them about their own learning. And it reinforces that they need to take responsibility for what they are and are not doing in the classroom.

At gcse years they are usually expected to attend. A lot of the feedback is for them in front of their parents at that stage.

year 7 upwards it varies

If the teacher has something to say that they feel they can't say in front of your child, this sounds like something that should be discussed outside the limited time slot you get at parents' evening.

I've had teachers openly say in front of my DC that they feel they are not putting in effort, that they won't get the grades required if they carry on in the same way, that they spend too much time playing class clown, that they don't do their homework - exactly what sort of comments are you thinking of?

I have done face to face and online (both with and without student).
Doing it without due to dc1 having asd therefore out of comfort zone and honestly I don't think some teachers knew who he was to the point I showed a few his school photo.
Having done both I don't feel they held back when dc were there, on occasion especially with dc3 its helped because a plan can quickly be put in place between us all eg dc3 will go to after school support on x day, mum will remind and teacher will also prompt.
I'd say it depends on the student and probably the teacher as well. Dc2 is very quiet was always top set and got overlooked being present at parents evening helped make her feel visible at times.

We don't change what we say based on whether the student is there. We give honest, instructive feedback and guidance.

I think my preference is that students attend as it's part of maturing and strengthening bonds. Plus, nothing gets lost in translation that way. And the feedback we give at parents'evening should never be a surprise to the student. We feed back continually.

The only thing I can think I might want to say without the child there is a suggestion for an SEN referral, but I wouldn't do that at parents evening.

It is really handy to have the child there. I've said things like 'you did really poorly on that test, what do you think went wrong' and they've come up with answers, or I've asked a particularly quiet student if there is someone else in the class I could sit them next to who they would work well with.

I've also found it pretty annoying when, if the child isn't there, I've given the parent feedback like the kid isn't putting enough effort into their homework or whatever and needs to do x, y and z and then later mentioned it to the child and they said that the parent never said anything to them about it. What use is that?

I get DC to attend. I know enough about their performance and behaviour to know that the feedback is going to be positive and constructive. And I agree that it means the teacher is definitely talking about the correct student!
Plus, a lot of the feedback for DS1 (16, GCSE year) is very specific and often uses terminology that I'm unfamiliar with. Much better for DC to get it directly from the teachers, rather than badly/ inaccurately fed back from me.

My preference for real life appointments is for the DC to attend but throughout DC2's time at secondary school, appointments have been 5 minutes, online. The cut off is automatic so it needs efficiency at both ends for the appointment to be at all useful. DC2's processing is slow so they now only appear on screen for the subjects where they are confident the teacher 'gets' them and won't spring questions on them that will take most of the appointment time to come up with an answer. I make sure other teachers know DC2 is sitting with me so can hear what is being said. It's something of a compromise but has worked for DC2.

Students are expected to attend at our school. And the teachers are very honest in front of them. It is completely different to primary school.

I think in secondary school, it's the student's responsibility to hear and respond to the feedback, and the parents' responsibility to be aware of the situation and provide guidance and support. The student is the key person who should hear the feedback.

Thanks for all the comments.

We’ve never been in any doubt that the teacher is talking about our DD, though I’m sure in face-to-face meetings where people jump queues this could easily happen.

I take the point about the step on the road to maturity and will think about that. Certainly, as soon as the school says they expect the student to be present, DD will be there. However, there is no suggestion from the school that these meetings are designed for teacher and student to talk and parents to listen. From the recent school newsletter:

“Year 10 Progress Evening is held over 2 days to ensure parents can make appointments with as many GCSE subject teachers as possible. Please make bookings on both days. The progress evening is held online.”

I have heard rumours that some parents twist the feedback given, eg a teacher might say the student is working hard but the parents pass on the message that the teacher said they need to do much more study! We would never do this – we are very open and honest, and we’re not trying to hide anything from DD. We are just trying to get 4½ minutes out of the meeting without the platitudes.

I think it partly depends on the child. DD is able and studious and has never received a negative mark from school. She knows she is well liked and appreciated by all her teachers and is embarrassed at the thought of a succession of them telling her as much. She also knows that the main feedback she will receive is that she ought to speak up more in class and she’s working on this, and we talk to her regularly about strategies to take those opportunities.

One example of where it has been beneficial for her to be absent was when she wasn’t enjoying maths lessons because she felt the teacher was putting her on the spot disproportionately often in class. When that teacher told us she was working hard to challenge DD and engage her in ‘maths talk’ we were able to be honest about the effect this was having on DD’s confidence, and DD would not have been able to say that or sit comfortably through that very frank conversation! (But yes, she has taken that point on board and has learned to be quick to put her hand up when she is confident in the answer, and she is happier now with a different teacher and is in the top set and there really are no concerns at all.)

We are not afraid of any teacher comments and have never been advised that DD is not putting in the effort. I realise we are fortunate that she is like this (and we also recognise that it might change!) so any suggestion that anyone is avoiding hard truths is off the mark for us.

I’m interested to find that we’re basically alone in our preference. I would add that it’s not a strong one – if the school requests DD’s attendance or we feel she would benefit from it or she wants to attend, we’ll include her.

As a teacher of many years, I think you are mistaken in thinking it's the student to whom teachers would feel the need to 'dress up' what they say. If anything, teachers are more likely to be wary of saying negative things to the parents, not to the student. We are very used to having to be critical about students' level of effort and behaviour to their faces!

@OttersMayHaveShifted "We are very used to having to be critical about students' level of effort and behaviour to their faces!"

I'm sure - and teachers have plenty of opportunity to feed back to students during the 3-4 hours they have with each GCSE class every week (and yes - I know that time is precious and there isn't time to talk to 30 students individually every lesson...) Parents get 4½ minutes per year.

I fully appreciate that, in a lot of cases, the act of a teacher speaking to a student in front of their parents will result in more action. I just don't think it's necessary for our DD at the moment. If something changes, such as the school asking for students to be present, we will comply!

I was expected to have my child there and it was suggested on a few occasions that if they were absent without a legitimate excuse like sports practice then they weren’t taking school seriously.

I think it’s for the best tbh. The child hears what their teacher said to me(good and bad) plus I think it’s good for kids to know that teachers and parents are a team.

My kids think that teachers dampen down comments at PE because some unreasonable parents will complain and hassle the teacher if the comments aren’t good. My kids have always said that they think that the comments aren’t I’ve heard are fair and obviously enjoy hearing compliments about them being said to me.

I am surprised the school - in year 10 - isn’t more insistent that the child is there.

Some of the FB we get is very specific (eg “great work on graphs but you struggle with vectors, don’t you, do you know why?”) and I wouldn’t want to rely on myself to convey every piece of it across 9 subjects or whatever. Also means if DC doesn’t understand the comment, they can query it on the spot.

It doesn't really work like that. My manager gives me small bits of feedback on a regular basis but i still have a performance review at set intervals. I wouldn't be happy if performance review level feedback was delivered to me in a classroom full of my peers. Parents Evening at school is an opportunity for the teacher to give a summary of the student's s progress in private. There really shouldn't be anything told to you that they wouldn't want the student to hear. What's the point in feedback that the subject never finds out about?

I agree with the ever-excellent @SheilaFentimanthat feedback, esp in GCSE years, can be very specific. If I as an MFL specialist said “your speaking is good but I need you to use a greater range of irregular verbs and try phrases like “apres about + past participle” would that be easy for you to pass on? Is it not better heard by the student who may then have a question?

And I also agree that in class feedback does not work as you seem to think. It’s quick and focused on the task in hand (and very brief tbh; how much individual time does a student get in a class of 30 when perhaps half that time is spent on input, recap, whole class feedback?). Before parents Eve I spent time collating points to raise from the year as a whole, quite different from “good work Issy but remember your adjective ending”.

As a teacher of secondary students for many years it's interesting to listen to what the students think of the process. Personally, I prefer to have the student there because I view the education process as a partnership between myself, the student and the parents. My students know that I tell the parents exactly what I have said to them in school about their performance/ attitude be it good or bad.
However, I have overheard many conversations between students saying " Mrs X tells it as it is whereas Mrs Y never says anything bad."
I didn't get the impression that the narrative changed whether the student was there or not, but I found it odd that some teachers feel that they can't " say it as it is" in a polite, professional yet clear way. Surely that's the whole point of these sessions?

I bring my daughter when I can. She has an intensive dance schedule most evenings so she couldn’t come last time. I think it would have been helpful to have her there - but for the opposite reason, she never thinks she’s doing well enough and I would have liked her to hear about her progress directly. The vast majority of parents have their child with them in my experience.

In case any French speakers are horrified at my mangling of their beautiful language, may I protest that it was my phone. I obvs meant to write the phrase “apres avoir + past participle” as being worth using in your GCSE writing :)

I can recall several occasions when it was useful that DD was not present, but of course I have no experience of the benefits of her presence, because we’ve not tried it!

Also, people whose views I very much trust (@noblegiraffe, @clary, @SheilaFentiman) are all strongly in favour of the student attending.

Like @PurpleThistle7, DD has an activity that always clashes with the progress evening, and this year it’s worse as the progress evening is split over two sessions a fortnight apart, so it’s inconvenient.

I’m on the fence... If DD does attend I'll feed back on what we thought!

It's interesting that DD is reluctant to contribute in lessons and she's one of the few that doesn't attend parent's evening. Could it be that she's more used to having you do the talking on her behalf? I did assume you were talking about a younger child, by Y10 I'd definitely expect her to be attending.