Does this sound like neurodiversity, laziness or what?

[Cheeseandmorecheese]

I’m sorry this may be rather long, but I’d be very grateful for some views on whether there is something other than lack of effort going on here.

DS is 14 and in year 9. He genuinely seems to be very smart - in the top set for everything at secondary, came top in his primary school on SATS (maths and English), and reads multiple books a week plus has his own subscription to an (adult) news magazine as he’s so interested in current affairs. He can have detailed conversations about world politics and history that are at least as knowledgeable as my undergrads (I’m a university lecturer). His reports have always been great, both for effort and achievement, and said that he’s a pleasure to teach.

Since year 7-8 I have been slightly concerned as to his progress. He doesn’t seem to be able to communicate much at all in the languages he’s learning at school - in fact in one he can’t even count to 10 or write “my name is…”. I saw a draft humanities essay and it was badly written, structured and punctuated. In English he didn’t seem to put capital letters in. His grades still seemed OK, though, so I assumed my standards were too high.

This week everything has changed and he’s had a terrible report. Across almost all subjects his grades are slipping badly and his teachers say he isn’t making enough effort/isn’t achieving anywhere near what he’s capable of. He failed a science exam because he forgot to turn over the question paper to do the second half (!). He has been forgetting to do homework; forgetting to log homework he’s done; and finishing class assessments early after writing only the bare minimum. His teachers all say he’s great orally in class and a lovely lad, but his written work is at a much lower standard (which fits what I’ve seen) and he needs to make much more effort.

At first I was cross with him. But he seems genuinely baffled and upset. He says he’s making just as much effort as always. He says he finishes class assessments early because he has written as much as he can. He also says he hates writing and finds it hard to convert his thoughts to text (which baffles me as he reads all the time). At home, I’ve noticed he avoids picking up a pen ever, even to do maths workings or write shopping lists.

On reflection I don’t think he’s slacking off. He just seems to have no clue his written work is not meeting the right standard. I asked him to write me a 2-paragraph essay about a novel he’s recently read, which he cheerfully did (he’s unusually easygoing for a teen!) and it was dreadful - short, terrible SPAG and no structure. Yet verbally he could describe complex themes and how and why the writer had created them, discuss historical parallels, and even quote parts of the book.

Can it be just that he isn’t as bright as we thought, and his teachers are interpreting it as laziness? Or could there be something else going on, like a neurodiversity that he was able to compensate for by smartness until now? Socially he has no problems. At home he seems mostly content. He has always required a lot of attention and input though - he can’t be on his own in a room without coming to see where I am and if I’ll entertain him/feed him/chat. His much younger siblings are far more self-sufficient.

Thanks so much for any thoughts for anyone who’s got this far. Right now I don’t know whether he needs a bollocking, some skills training or an Ed Psych assessment!

Both mine have dyspraxia but different presentations.
One is clumsy but can do stairs.
The other doesn't have nearly so many bumps and knocks but as an adult still does stairs 2 feet on each step.
One took to typing and it helped, the other found typing too hard.
Both have some texture sensitivity, one more issues with food than the other.
Eldest knew more than she could extract from brain without prompting.

With the writing reluctance it might also be a bit of perfectionism and fear of failure. Is he willing to plan and write on a whiteboard to practice first?

re spag I also wonder if teachers have let it go, seen hes bright orally and thought it doesn’t match to his writing but now he’s in y9 and they’re thinking about options they’re getting more realistic and not giving him a break anymore?

it’s poor that his spag and handwriting have gone unremarked until now. He should also be taught writing structures throughout not just gcse, even if he doesn’t know how to apply them does he know what they should be?

Does sound like fine motor skills issues (as well as other things).

there are quite a few things that can be done to improve these:

hand strength is stuff like working plasticine - you can also do various hand exercises to improve it eg these

https://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/ss/slideshow-hand-finger-exercises

Co-ordination of fingers and hands is also something that can be worked on - eg these type of exercises

https://www.theottoolbox.com/finger-dexterity-exercise-game-for-fine/

Sounds like DD, who started school with a hiss and a roar, read voraciously, very strong across the board… apart from writing. I noticed this quite early on, as did one of her teachers. The school was in a state of flux (‘modern learning environment’, team teaching - all bonkers). Moved her to a different school… She was bright enough to go under the radar.

However - finally diagnosed with dysgraphia at high school. I strongly suspect also ASD. I’d never heard of dysgraphia! When I was getting frustrated because she wouldn’t start/plan/ work through a plan & telling her to expand on bullet points) she really couldn’t! She now gets extra time in assessments,,has a reader/writer, and uses voice to text on her laptop.

Still not achieving as well as she could (IMO😁) but so much better.

Smoking pot before school does this.

Can he dictate and you write? That will help you see whether it is the physical writing that is causing the issue or something earlier on in the process.

I agree with this. Get him typing and ask the school to accommodate this.

My DS (10) is on the autism waiting list. He was in a state going to school every Friday because it was writing day, crying and refusing. He was given a laptop by the school and it made a huge difference. His writing work is actually very good and the teachers were really impressed with the difference between handwritten and typing.

This was me as a child to the letter. Top of the class by a comfortable margin despite being a June birthday throughout primary school, albeit not in writing (which I really struggled with) but definitely in everything else, particularly maths.

Just about got by in year 7 and 8 but fell apart spectacularly in year 9 and carried on plummeting. I just couldn’t do it, I remember revising for my GCSEs being close to impossible as I just couldn’t focus or get what I needed to in my mind. School was such a struggle and my mum pulled her hair out at how unorganised I seemed to be.

I came away with a crop of Bs and Cs for GCSE, when my year 6 results would have tallied with A*s. I left school at that point for a few years and massively lost my way, but then I finally matured somewhat and managed to sit maths and 2 science A levels in my late teens/early 20s and subsequently a degree. Im in a professional STEM role now and doing well, although I still can’t spell to save my life and find lots of writing extremely hard.

I was diagnosed initially with dyspraxia and subsequently with inattentive ADHD in university. I have a very decent IQ but my mind struggles significantly with standard learning. Please don’t discount this for your son.

This happened to my DS. I think he just got bored and lost his motivation for education, he picked it back up in year 11 and did well in his GCSE's, he's now doing A-Levels. No ND that we know of although several us in the family are ND and there are genetic links so there could be something there.

I think this is just the year when the pressure & homework picks up. The natural talent is fading now and they have to work for results.

You may need to make a big fuss and buy a laptop yourself (if you and he do think typing will make a difference) but it is well worth doing so in year 9, as JCQ have massively tightened the regulations on who can type in exams this year, so you need to establish it as his normal way of working before GCSEs loom.

I have one student who types in year 10 and one in year 11, to give you an idea. So that's 20-30 who don't, respectively.

I paid for an educational psychology assessment for my daughter before she started secondary as I was dissatisfied with the basic one done for her EHCP. It was £750. It can be hard to find an educational psychologist so worth asking around. We found one by word of mouth.

Ok OP I wrote you a long post but then I deleted it as I didn’t know whether my English would be satisfactory to you 🤣

However these are the people you need to check it out

OT - can do writing assessments - then can make sure your child scribes / extra time / uses a laptop

Adhd - psychiatrist meds or not or whether adhd

Dyslexia need assessment

EP for the boring tests which determine the processing speed etc

Those will cost you £8k plus easy if not more to get decent people (ok I’m “down south”) maybe cheaper else where.

No point mentioning primary school. Kids can go under the radar. Need to look at the situation now / the school. One test who cares look at the bigger picture with the child.

NHS you will wait a life time. Need to pay private to move forward (don’t agree with it but having waited 3 years plus nothing happens you have to pay to get support which is wrong).

Never blame your child and don’t get cross with them 😩 - 100% they will be trying their hardest.

In terms of written work - using mindmaps / spider diagrams are a good way of planning what to write for neurodivergent brains.

It sounds a bit like inattentive ADHD (I have this) which might not be as obvious especially in boys.

I'm beginning to doubt the pigeonholing nature of some of the SEN world. My DD is undeniably neurodiverse, but trying to unpick her differences seems to mostly be about communicating that to neurotypical people.

YY totally with you here. In some ways I think it's a bit of a lucky dip what label you end up with based on nuances in how you present but also possibly the bias of the person diagnosing. I've definitely spoken to several people who have been told the exact same difficulties can be attributed to their [X/Y/Z diagnosis]. But OTOH, having the piece of paper is useful for communicating and it can be helpful for school and for signposting whether there are specific interventions or accommodations or bits of assistive tech or whatever which are likely to help.

In some ways it feels like it would be helpful to have an official category called "neurodivergent" and know that everything fits under that but then OTOH can you imagine if you just got given that as an answer and how vague it would feel? The specific LDs like dyslexia/dysgraphia at least have more specific suggestions behind them, which can be a starting point.

Understood.org can be quite good as well - it's got lots of info about different SEN and how they fit in to education specifically.