Does this sound like neurodiversity, laziness or what?

[Cheeseandmorecheese]

I’m sorry this may be rather long, but I’d be very grateful for some views on whether there is something other than lack of effort going on here.

DS is 14 and in year 9. He genuinely seems to be very smart - in the top set for everything at secondary, came top in his primary school on SATS (maths and English), and reads multiple books a week plus has his own subscription to an (adult) news magazine as he’s so interested in current affairs. He can have detailed conversations about world politics and history that are at least as knowledgeable as my undergrads (I’m a university lecturer). His reports have always been great, both for effort and achievement, and said that he’s a pleasure to teach.

Since year 7-8 I have been slightly concerned as to his progress. He doesn’t seem to be able to communicate much at all in the languages he’s learning at school - in fact in one he can’t even count to 10 or write “my name is…”. I saw a draft humanities essay and it was badly written, structured and punctuated. In English he didn’t seem to put capital letters in. His grades still seemed OK, though, so I assumed my standards were too high.

This week everything has changed and he’s had a terrible report. Across almost all subjects his grades are slipping badly and his teachers say he isn’t making enough effort/isn’t achieving anywhere near what he’s capable of. He failed a science exam because he forgot to turn over the question paper to do the second half (!). He has been forgetting to do homework; forgetting to log homework he’s done; and finishing class assessments early after writing only the bare minimum. His teachers all say he’s great orally in class and a lovely lad, but his written work is at a much lower standard (which fits what I’ve seen) and he needs to make much more effort.

At first I was cross with him. But he seems genuinely baffled and upset. He says he’s making just as much effort as always. He says he finishes class assessments early because he has written as much as he can. He also says he hates writing and finds it hard to convert his thoughts to text (which baffles me as he reads all the time). At home, I’ve noticed he avoids picking up a pen ever, even to do maths workings or write shopping lists.

On reflection I don’t think he’s slacking off. He just seems to have no clue his written work is not meeting the right standard. I asked him to write me a 2-paragraph essay about a novel he’s recently read, which he cheerfully did (he’s unusually easygoing for a teen!) and it was dreadful - short, terrible SPAG and no structure. Yet verbally he could describe complex themes and how and why the writer had created them, discuss historical parallels, and even quote parts of the book.

Can it be just that he isn’t as bright as we thought, and his teachers are interpreting it as laziness? Or could there be something else going on, like a neurodiversity that he was able to compensate for by smartness until now? Socially he has no problems. At home he seems mostly content. He has always required a lot of attention and input though - he can’t be on his own in a room without coming to see where I am and if I’ll entertain him/feed him/chat. His much younger siblings are far more self-sufficient.

Thanks so much for any thoughts for anyone who’s got this far. Right now I don’t know whether he needs a bollocking, some skills training or an Ed Psych assessment!

These answers are really helpful - thank you! I hadn’t realised an Ed Psych report could help even if they don’t actually diagnose something. That sounds genuinely useful. I think we could afford it (though I haven’t checked precise costs yet). Any ideas on how to find a reputable one?

@Shawdown yes I’ve been concerned for a while - but while he continued to get such high grades I assumed I was just being a perfectionist or unfairly comparing him to the students I teach, who are at least 4-6 years older! You’re right that I don’t want his self-esteem (which currently seems fine) to plummet though.

@Octavia64 i think you’re right and we will have to put in a lot more scaffolding at home with organisation of homework. We can also tutor him ourselves if necessary, and he’s very amenable to doing extra work at home if needs be, but so far this hasn’t seemed to help much. We have shown him how to structure essay and sat with him while he does it, and made suggestions for improving things like SPAG - and he’s then done very well indeed - but he seems not to be able to replicate the same strategies when left to his own devices.

@starryeyess *I wouldn't rule out ASD, ADHD dysgraphia or dyslexia tbh - or a combination of 2 or more. How is he socially? Did he make a whole group of new good friends at Secondary school?”

He’s fine socially, I think, and has made good new friends with seemingly no bother. He’s also very mature (helps that he’s one of the oldest in the year) and keeps being given “leadership” type roles. Again that slightly makes me doubt myself…

He could be ND and lazy. One doesn't preclude the other.

It will take weeks to months for him to be able to use strategies that you teach him to help structure his writing.

students don’t internalise that kind of stuff quickly.
it’s a long slow process.

you may find it helpful to start him on writing a diary.

This is what I’m wondering - does he just need tutoring or teaching some writing skills, rather than there being anything actually “wrong”? I just picked these sorts of skills up from reading, mostly, but maybe some children don’t? I must have said “use capital letters” at least a billion times over the past 5 years though and it’s made no difference at all.

Just to add to this (I work in an adjacent role and am used to eye rolls from some educators who should know better), a diagnosis isn’t given because parents pay for it, or least not by reputable providers. It’s more true to say that parents pay for assessment because they are desperate - and the timescales for NHS assessments are horrific.

The one piece advice I would suggest is to find a service with a multi-disciplinary team and not an Ed Psych alone. NICE recommends MDT for ADHD assessment and it means that if a diagnosis is not made, they may be better placed to identify other causes (and solutions).

He won’t write a diary. We have tried, and he would write at most 4-5 words per day. He is REALLY resistant to writing. I wasn’t joking when I said he’ll barely pick up a pen at home. I suppose he might be willing to do it on the laptop, but I’m not certain.

An Ed Psych doesn't diagnose - they will look at his learning profile a d make suggestions.

Autism, dyslexia and ADHD all require separate assessments (not by an EP)

I'd start with the ed Psych. They aren't gaining anything apart from the assessment fees as they will give strategies to try and leave you/school to it.

Thank you - this is really helpful and reassuring. I do fear the stigma a bit, as I can just imagine his teachers thinking “honestly - one bad report and his mother wants to pay for some kind of diagnosis instead of telling her son to put more a bit more effort in!”. But I’ve emailed the school SENCo now so am taking this forward.

Also, it is better to check this now than wait a d find yourself in Y11 wishing you had.

Interesting.

does it hurt when he writes? That could be indicative of hand strength issues.

one of things that an EP will do is look at speed of handwriting and letter formation. My DS was very slow and moved onto a laptop. He did his GCSEs on a laptop, made a big difference to him.

The private ed psychs tend to have high diagnosis rates if I understand correctly, because they screen before they accept people in order that you're not wasting money if there's not a reasonable chance of results. Also because people tend to seek this kind of thing out when their DC is struggling and needs specific support, so they often already have an idea in mind.

Many of them work for the NHS as well as privately and don't give different services either way.

I’ve asked if it hurts, and he said only if he has to write a lot. He has a bizarre pencil grip and messy handwriting, but I don’t think he’s unusually slow at writing. He can certainly write at length with a pen if needs be (he aced a history essay assessment last year, after a lot of support at home to get a very detailed plan down on paper beforehand).

I also asked why he dislikes writing - he says it feels weird (?) and he doesn’t see the point (!). He prefers typing but is very slow at that.

He genuinely prefers to do everything in his head (even complex maths problems that I can’t even start to keep in my head!) than put pen to paper.

This is really good to know - thanks!

He sounds like my Dd, albeit she's younger. She was first diagnosed with dysgraphia, then ADHD (which we had suspected for some time). Most recently we've found that her processing speed is completely out of whack with her other abilities and we're now looking into ASD too. The ASD bit sounds least like your DS.

I don't think that the diagnoses of dysgraphia and ADHD are unconnected. She really struggles to multitask and handwriting is actually many things at once. For example, she can accurately punctuate, but has to go back and do it, including the capital letters, she can't write and punctuate at the same time. Similarly, accurately forming letters and putting spaces between words, whilst holding what she wants to say in her mind is really hard for her.

My DD's written work is much better when typing. Voice to text is even better, but she only does that for homework.

I'm beginning to doubt the pigeonholing nature of some of the SEN world. My DD is undeniably neurodiverse, but trying to unpick her differences seems to mostly be about communicating that to neurotypical people.

I should have added - he still sometimes has to have help to undo buttons and prefers to take his clothes off with buttons done up! So maybe there ARE hand strength issues. I’m not sure though if that points to ND or against it (ie he’s just poor at writing because he doesn’t practise because of his grip).

I would guess possible mild dyslexia and ADHD. I know he reads a lot. I think I'm dyslexic (DC2 definitely is) and I used to read a lot. I would also consider autism simply because many people with ADHD are also autistic.

DC2 got diagnosed with dyslexia after completing A-Levels. I asked the assessor how the primary and secondary schools both missed it and she said that they only have basic ways of assessing it and bright children can usually pass these assessments unless their dyslexia is very bad, DC2 is a university student now and still forgets about capital letters at the start of sentences. However they run all their written work through ChatGPT to correct this sort of thing. DC2 stopped reading at about the age of 14.

Dyspraxia! I think my brother has it. He still couldn't do up shoelaces when he started secondary.

While you are working out the issues I would highly recommend trying to encourage typing to see if he can speed up and if not, once the issue is uncovered see if he finds a scribe helpful, or text to speech software as already mentioned. My son writes slowly and by the time we realised what the problem was the OT suggested it's pointless trying to correct now and just get him typing (which he could already do fortunately) and it's made an enormous difference. He can write if he needs to (which is quite rare!) and that's good enough. For exams, laptop all the way. Doubled the amount he could produce in the time, if not more.

Motor skills?

My DD1 was far better verbally than written - she has dyspraxia.

Typing helped a lot.
Also really explaining how much detail was required, eg 6 marks in science means 6 facts use of point evidence explain (or whatever current buzzword is).
Planning before writing to separate writing from the hard thinking.

Oh, shoelaces have been a struggle here too. He’s pretty good at sports though and isn’t clumsy so I’d ruled out dyspraxia. What a confusing, contradictory picture it all is.

This sounds sensible. I will see what I can do on the improving typing skills front.

I think there may be fine motor dyspraxia, which might not show up in sport so much.

Mine can't undo her top button and only learned to do shoe laces when we couldn't find trainers in her size with velcro.

The thing I don't understand is that she is good at drawing, but not handwriting. That makes me uncertain about dyspraxia.

I think you can be good at sports (gross motor skills) but not good at shoelaces (fine motor skills) and still have dyspraxia. I would stay open-minded about the possibility.

However, I’m sure being bad a shoelaces is a possible feature of many other conditions such as ADHD and autism.

There is a huge cross over with all neurodivergent labels. One for the experts to unpack. I would start with a private EP and OT. Then move onwards to other assessments depending what they uncovered.