Private school secrecy about selection tests

[Devilsadvoc8]

Our child took 3 tests for private schools. Received 2 invitations to interview. We knew going into this process that no results would be shared.

But am I alone in thinking this is pretty bad? My child is fine with it, but did want to know more about the rejection. DC actually emailed the school to share their thoughts on this: that the studies show this is quite harmful for children in many ways. It was supported by AI (the information about the studies), but I agreed that DC could send it. The school got quite arsey! They refused to respond to my DC and contacted me instead! (I think this says a thing or two about that school..)

But such a defence was mounted, it really makes me wonder - what is this all about? DC took grammar schools tests and got results and it was really useful feedback.

I'm certain many of you have real credible explanations as to why such opacity, I'd really love to hear it!

Is it approved for schools to send emails back to children?

The school certainly cannot respond to a 10/11 year old about their application and I am astonished that you thought they would (and that you are encouraging them to use AI). Incredible!

I am not sure what your point is here. Private schools run their own selection process - and your son did sell getting through to 2 interviews out of 3 schools he tried for.

You knew what the process entailed going into the assessments. Not sure what you were trying to do when encouraging your son to reach out to the school with what was essentially a criticism of how they run their selection - by suggesting with AI help that his mental health (presumably) is damaged by not knowing why he did not get to interviews.

And - of course the school would not be responding directly to a 10/11 y.o. - as this is not something they can (or should) do.

If you wanted to actually help your child - I'd have explained to him that he didn't get through to interviews because he must have not scored high enough on the admission tests. And - if he wanted to try to get feedback, even when feedback is not usually offered - the way to ask for it is to ask nicely, NOT by suggesting they are damaging him by not providing such feedback.

To protect his mental health, I would tell your DC that a lot of people applied this year but well done on getting through the others - what an achievement!
(That’s what I told mine and she didn’t bat an eyelid, but equally we’ve not made it a huge deal).

Im not sure what would you would gain from the feedback that would be useful? They either got some maths wrong / didn’t score highly in English , maybe they just had an off day, maybe they misread some questions, maybe they didn’t see there was another page… who knows? Nothing to be done now anyway.

How is feedback likely to be useful? He’s done all his exams now so it’s not like he can work on the areas he got wrong.

There are two possible reasons for not being invited to interview. Either he did badly in the exam, or his reference/report from primary says something damning. Either way, I doubt it would help his mental health to be given more detail about it.

I agree with pp, I have no idea why you’re letting him email the school himself to ask for feedback, or citing AI as backup.

I guess the thing to remind yourself is that these aren’t ‘fair’ / invigilated exams like GCSEs. They are set by the school, to find attributes that match the kind of kid they want to have in their school.

I’d think of it more like an entrance to a private members’ club than a real / fair process.

The reason they don’t share is because ultimately, it’s their call who they accept and who they don’t. Sharing results with parents could expose them to all manner of complaints, criticisms and even legal processes.

For example one kid I know applying for a top London school I can be absolutely certain would have got near on 100% in his tests but didn’t get a place (i assume) because he doesn’t have much of a personality. How can the school feed that back to the parents in a meaningful way? ‘He’s a genius but we just didn’t like his vibe, soz.’

I also know of other top schools that let in kids with celebrity or ultra high net worth parents who maybe don’t perform as well. It’s their perogative and its good for business.

They are wise enough to know that opening the kimono on what’s fundamentally a pretty unfair process will do them no good.

I think that if you and your child cannot cope with not being selected for interview by all of the selective schools you’ve applied for, then child may not be suited to a selective school environment.

Of course they can’t email your 10/11 year old to discuss their results in an entrance test.

I suspect him emailing to question their entrance policies confirms their decision was the correct one.

It’s absolutely standard to not be given results or feedback. DC’s school don’t even give results of 11+ entrance exams to the prep school students who are through students. They can admit who they like, based on what they see fit.

Also - an outright rejection rather than being given the option to be added to the waitlist suggests he was either way below the pass mark, or didn’t seem like a good fit at interview.

It’s not as simple as most people think for most schools.

It is actually quite complex as the school has two aims; it needs to be full but it also wants to gain as many really bright pupils as possible (relative to where it generally sits).

So, most schools will offer all the stars, knowing that they will be rejected by 90% (The St Paul’s and Westminsters excepted). Then they will split the rest of their offers between the middle and the bottom, guessing that a certain percentage of the middle will accept and most of the ‘bottom’.

That is why schools have mixed ability (within a range, which varies by school). With VAT, there are notably weaker pupils at most schools.

It is also why you get the bulge years, with more pupils than the school really wants. The Head got it wrong and more accepted than expected.

I wouldn’t read too much into an individual acceptance or rejection. Most private schools are oversubscribed but most parents apply to several schools. Hopefully, pupils find the right school for them and vice versa.

The school is probably glad he didn’t get in if he’s going on like that (or you encouraging/permitting him). Breathing a sigh of relief I imagine.

Tbh what did you expect?

I expect the school feels they made the right decision if your son thinks he can use AI to question schools he failed to get into about their decision.

Ime, private schools don’t have e a solid pass/fail mark that guarantees the offer of a place or not. Decisions are made more holistically and schools look at overall results as well as the child’s personal conduct, family situation and anything else they want to consider.

This, it reads like,, private school exams and selection are of course appropriate and fair, as long as I get in… if not I demand an explanation and they are not fair!

Sounds like their selection process worked well, accept the outcome and teach your son he isn't the centre of the earth.

A better approach would have been for you to call the admissions team yourself and say I know DC didn't score highly enough to be offered a place but we are curious to know his approximate score so we can prepare for next steps, be that applying again at 13 or targeting some less selective schools. Are you able to let us know?

One of the schools my DC applied to were happy to share roughly how they scored in comparison to other applicants, and to explain the process if we did want to reapply at a later stage. Some schools have very transparent admissions processes and others are as opaque as mud. Congratulations on the 2 offers your DC did get.

Some schools have very transparent admissions processes and others are as opaque as mud.

And as independent schools, this is their prerogative.

OP, if you want a school which is to both publish an admissions policy which adheres to a statutory code, and actually only applies the oversubscription criteria listed in that policy when ranking those who apply, then have your DC educated within the state system.

Many people are actually quite happy that indies aren't constrained in this way (mainly because the Admissions Code by which state schools must conduct themselves only allows them in very specific circumstances not to admit those nasty naughty children whose presence would prevent their DC from fulfilling their academic potential, but also sometimes, one might observe, because it allows them to assume that there was some 'special' about their DC, which the school obviously recognised). At least, when it's not their DC who are found wanting by the admissions process...

Remember that Indes often assess the parents as much as the children. Being a pain in the arse during the admissions process will put you way down the list.

Did your ds email to say it was harmful for children to be rejected or to not be told their score/why they were rejected?

Will the school staff speak to staff at other schools about the email or are they not in contact?

I know a family who were desperate to get into a renowned school.

They were personally told the mother was the reason her children would never be admitted to the school. She caused chaos starting rumours about the previous school, badmouthing other parents of prospective children, and generally making nuisance of herself.

Who applies to an organisation and immediately starts questioning them on their policies?

Afraid you have burnt any remaining bridges with this one. He clearly was not “fine” with the decision which was their right to make and has probably reinforced the validity of that. It comes across as self important and precocious. Why are you allowing a 10/11 year old to use AI? The school were absolutely correct to respond to you not him.

What's wrong with a child using AI for research purposes?! Or is this an anti-internet thing?

Who applies to an organisation and immediately starts questioning them on their policies?

I mean, I know plenty of NHS doctors doing just that right now....

I do teach my child to question, otherwise how does humanity make progress? I would think a school would encourage this. Maybe these are alien thoughts.

Of importance here, we are not the only family who question this. We're not strange.

Thanks for your time everyone.

I'm still no more informed about why independent schools would do this when their state counterparts are able to share. It was the wrong place to ask!

Ask your son to explain. If he got into two of the schools, his reading comprehension must be better than yours. Many posters have explained the difference and why many/most independent schools don’t give those details.

Because AI is a tool that should not be used until one has developed the skill and intelligence to harness it, check for flaws etc. Which is not going to happen for a primary school child.

Teachers will be looking out for AI crafted essays etc and it is usually pretty obvious if chatGPT rather than a 10 year old has written a letter.

None of this would help his case in seeking a favour (because feedback is a favour, not a given)