Private school secrecy about selection tests

[Devilsadvoc8]

Our child took 3 tests for private schools. Received 2 invitations to interview. We knew going into this process that no results would be shared.

But am I alone in thinking this is pretty bad? My child is fine with it, but did want to know more about the rejection. DC actually emailed the school to share their thoughts on this: that the studies show this is quite harmful for children in many ways. It was supported by AI (the information about the studies), but I agreed that DC could send it. The school got quite arsey! They refused to respond to my DC and contacted me instead! (I think this says a thing or two about that school..)

But such a defence was mounted, it really makes me wonder - what is this all about? DC took grammar schools tests and got results and it was really useful feedback.

I'm certain many of you have real credible explanations as to why such opacity, I'd really love to hear it!

I bet that school thinks they’ve made a lucky escape from your child as well as you. You both sound massively entitled and egotistical.

I think as others have said, it’s because they can. They are a private business and as such are not obliged to share details like this.

If you apply for a job at a private firm and don’t get an interview, they are not obliged to tell you why not.

The school may not have the admin capacity to feed back to hundreds of candidates; or as others say, the reasons for rejection may seem unpalatable so they would rather not share. Or yes, it may be that the school’s process is not truly rigorous, fair and transparent (as a state school’s must be) so they don’t wish to share that they offered an interview to x celeb’s child. The school is entitled to do this. But perhaps it wants to avoid complaints about its process. Or there could be other reasons.

I am another who is surprised you expected a school to reply to a child’s email.

Private schools want intelligent AND well-behaved students and parents. Sounds like they dodged a bullet.

AI does not develop critical thinking strategies and often is inaccurate or selective about its use of source material such that statements are used as fact rather than opinion. A child(and many an adult) does not interpret the “information” within its context or correctly.

If your 10/11 year old knows how to use AI "properly" for research purposes, then there is nothing wrong with it at all. AI can be a useful tool.

If by "research" you mean they typed a question into AI and just assumed the answer that came back was fully complete and correct, without consulting or checking any other sources then that's not research.

(In the same way that just googling something also does not count as research).

I think it was an odd decision to allow your child to email the school questioning their admissions process. What did you think he would gain from this? You are the parent and should have encouraged him to focus on the two interviews he has. Explain in life things don't always happen the way you want it and sometimes it is for the better, which you only realise later.

I found when my ds did not pass through the first stage for one school I asked the admissions if it were possible to give some insight on his performance for the exam. They shared he was in the first quartile for English, but 3rd for math! And that is why. It was a huge shocker as Math was always his strongest subject and I can only assume he made silly mistakes or they could not read his written work (the way he writes his numbers can be confused with other numbers). Anyway, we focused on where he did get through and he is thriving at his secondary. I believe children end up where they are meant to.

But state schools don’t really share do they? It’s all based on the test score if it’s a grammar school etc.
Far more complex at an Independent school. Sometimes it will come down to not being the right fit. For example I know a boy who applied to the most selective schools in the country. Got an offer from one and a straight rejection from another. He came across as too arrogant apparently and one of the schools didn’t like it.
The school would never give feedback directly to your child- that would go against all sorts of safeguarding etc rules. Far better to ask politely for feedback once the whole admissions cycle is done and dusted if you really want to know.

Private schools can reject candidates on the basis that they don't think they would fit in. State schools can't do this because they are not allowed to, and also because they don't have the resources to interview in order to assess that. So basically the answer is "because we liked other pupils and their parents more than you".

I don't understand why you would focus on what you didn't get, as opposed to what you did though.

Private schools don't need to be transparent, they can pick and choose. If they openly admitted to letting in lower scoring kids because they had a sibling there/were from a well known wealthy family/would benefit the rugby team etc then it would be a complete nightmare for them and the parenys would be squabbling and bitter from day one.

If they had to take the best scoring kids only, like a grammar school, then they'd lose a lot of the families they actually value for other reasons. Whether you agree with their values or not is neither hear nor there. They are businesses, they want alumni and good sports teams to sell themselves, they don't care about social mobility.

I think using AI to cherry pick research and emotionally blackmail isn't a good lesson for your DS. If he isn't able to handle rejection, either help him learn or don't set him up to fail by taking difficult tests. It's not anti computer, it's anti common sense and entitlement and learning not to ask questions you might not like the answers to.

You tell him it was a very popular school this year and how well he did to get interviews to 2/3.

The one school I applied to for my son listed their criteria in emails and on their website. Interviews offers are based on those that score the in the top 10-15% on the exams and show promise in the school documents (reports and references) submitted. Doublecheck the school documents for that info. No it won't be specific but chances are it's not about your son not being good enough but rather other children were just better. And that's life.

What feedback did you or your son want? And what do you hope to change?

2 out of 3 sounds amazing to me. Your son should be proud of that great achievement. Try to help him appreciate that rather than develop a sense of entitlement.

I can understand why both you and your son would want to know why. It’s human nature.
But you’ve sadly gone about this in completely the wrong way and I’m sorry to also say missed a valuable life lesson opportunity for your son.
The reality of the world is you will often not be told why a decision that impacts you has been made. At school, university, or work.
You can demand that you be told, explaining as eruditely as possible why your demand is actually the right thing to do. You may perhaps even think that your child doing this actually shows the school what a mistake they made?
Or you could politely ask the registrar for feedback over the phone, knowing it’s not your right to receive it but explaining how helpful it would be. You’d be surprised what someone might say to a polite and friendly parent that they won’t write down in an email to a ten year old.
If you step back and think about it, which approach is going to get the feedback you and your son say you wanted?

How have you managed to get results back now? Adhoc year group? Boarding school? A random entry point?

Well, school is a business unfortunately your child didnot meet the grade or was there even a place to begin?. If you didn’t want to do the process to corrupt their mind you shouldn’t have signed them up.

I do think it’s slightly bonkers emailing the school. They are a business and just want money. I bet the admin lady had a bit of a laugh.

Was there actually a school place available? Maybe if your child is so strong minded in the interview they would be nervous on taking on the child and maybe wouldn’t fit with other children / the school.

Fine for the mum to question it if it’s the top school but I don’t think its appropriate for the child to do it.

Think it’s bad - just go to a state acho easy they will accept if you are clos e

How have you managed to get results back now? Adhoc year group? Boarding school? A random entry point?

The child wasn't invited to interview. Private schools often do the tests first and then invite the top X in the test to interview. So he met the score requirement to interview at two of the schools but not the third.

Private schools have opaque admissions and usually the final say is down to the absolute discretion of the headmaster. When you sign up, read the terms and conditions. They will take your registration fee and some will provide feedback, some won’t. Some will provide feedback formally to a prep head.

State schools have to comply with a strict criteria according to the law and selective grammars have to rank in an objective way.

I do not think you should go down the private school route, given everything you say. A lot is at their discretion including asking a DC to leave. Stick with state if you are already not feeling comfortable with the whole thing.

I actually think he does have a point though even if that is the way private schools work. Lots of kids are putting in a lot of work for the exams and getting no feedback on how they’ve done. I found it quite annoying even when we were accepted for the school we sat for. X child did well in our entrance exams doesn’t really mean a lot. I’d have preferred some real numbers re scoring.

His score might have been fine as he scored well for other schools, and the school cannot give the feedback "we don't want customers like your mum".

OP encouraged her DS to accuse the school of harming children, even before joining the school. They probably sensed that attitude during the application and assessment process.

OP:

Thingything gave an excellent response

there’s a lot of other good comments here and valid observations. Which based on your follow up comments you seems to have disregarded

your son has got interviews at two places. Great.

he did not get an interview at the third. Disappointing for you all but then it’s time to focus on the others.

contacting the school in the way you did means that door is very firmly shut now. Had you approached it in another way it need not have been so.

I know parents in similar situations who obtained feedback and guidance from the rejecting senior school. But that is because they approached them in a calm, collegiate way.

goor luck at the other two schools.

Al should absolutely not be used for research purposes. It fabricates answers and uses random sources from the net.