School ignoring requests for SENCO meeting

[IvoryRain]

We are desperately worried about DS (15)’s learning & development. Something is going on. The issues have become increasingly pronounced over the last 2 years.

Met with the school last year, and they put some support in place - where he could discreetly flag if he’s struggling in class - but teachers have ignored this when he’s tried. I’ve tried reaching out again this year, and have requested a meeting with the school SENCO about his organisation and concentration - twice in writing, and once over the phone (over the phone, they said to email). Second email was CC the head and SENCO after the request to the HoY was ignored for several weeks. Both requests have been polite and constructive. It has been over 2 months since the initial request and no response from either.

I don’t know whether to escalate this to the MAT, but I don’t want to be inflammatory. I know they’re busy, but DS is slipping through the cracks. Meanwhile they’re doling out constant detentions because he’s disorganised, can’t focus, and struggling to complete his work. When we’ve expressed concerns to the school, they’ve brushed the detentions off as not that serious because his behaviour isn’t too bad; it’s mostly about his work. However, he’s still spending almost every lunchtime in detention, and missing lessons as they’re putting him in exclusion if he gets a few in quick succession. He is now becoming disillusioned and no longer sees the point in trying when he gets a detention no matter what he does. We’re supporting as much as we can at home, but tearing our hair out.

I’m wondering whether to try for a referral through his GP, but I don’t know if there’s a diagnosis there, and I really wanted the school’s assessment first. Even if we go down that road, waiting lists will be long and he needs support in school now. Perhaps I’m just being impatient and need to bide my time - or maybe they just don’t think it’s necessary and he’s therefore not entitled to see the SENCO?

He’s also having some communication difficulties which I’ve referred him to SALT for. He’s finally reached the top of the waiting list and has an appt in Jan, but communication is only one element of the issue.

Any advice on how you’d handle?

Schools can’t diagnose learning difficulties and many will dismiss them which misleads you into thinking that they can/would flag any issues if they were present.

The only way to know is with a private diagnosis from a specialist Assessor or Educational Psychologist.

I’m no expert, but Dyslexia would be my initial suspicion based on what you’re saying about his disorganisation, inability to complete his work on time and remain focussed.

Yes I would push for a diagnosis. School cannot do this so I suggest you see your GP and find out what the waiting list time is like. Then yes, can you afford to have him assessed privately? It could be something like dyslexia, or it could be ND – ASC or ADHD possibly. Or it could be something else – my DS's condition was only diagnosed when he was about 12/13, although the issues were apparent before that. Make a note of everything that you think is relevant. What form do the communication issues take? Is it possible that is related to ND or some other disability?

You say it's got worse over the last two years – were there issues before this time? If so have they got worse or just perhaps more marked (as he is now in GCSE years, when the pace of work and expectations from school often ramp up)?

Assessment of what? Depending on what it is, the assessment may not be offered or will be several years wait.

The school’s complaint procedure will be on their website. I would follow that.

Thanks so much for your advice. When I say the school’s assessment, I just mean informally - i.e. their views from the context they see him in. But it sounds like I may be barking up the wrong tree with this anyway.

Not sure on affordability of going private as I don’t know how much it costs - we’d do it if we possibly could though, and would certainly prioritise it over a family holiday if it’s either/or. Silly question, but do private diagnoses hold weight when it comes to reasonable adjustments though? I’ve heard people have had trouble, but then what’s the alternative when NHS waiting lists are what they are?

I’ve had similar thoughts about dyslexia or ADHD, as he has strong traits of both, though with both of these there are certain traits he also doesn’t present with (eg hyperactivity), which is partly why I’ve been doubting myself over it and wanting school’s advice. I know not all children will present with all traits though. Our eldest has ASD and I don’t think that’s what we’re dealing with here (though it’s possible the spectrum is wider than I realise - however the two’s issues are very different).

In terms of timescale, he’s had never had clear verbal communication, but it’s getting worse year on year (extremely quiet, stuttering and mumbly - now even we struggle to understand him). He’s always been disorganised and a bit ‘away with the fairies’, but it’s only since expectations have increased at school that he’s started to slip so far behind.

Sounds like I should just forget the school for now, next step GP, then investigate private options if waiting lists are still insane.

Private is the only way to get a dyslexia assessment. Dyslexia assessment is much cheaper than a dual ASD/ADHD assessment.

Does he have a mobile which he takes to school and has with him during the school day?

If the school is ignoring you and escalating that to the HT hasn’t worked, formally complain. Assuming this is a state mainstream school and not independent, remind them they have a duty to make reasonable adjustments as per the Equality Act 2010 and must make their best endeavours to meet DS’s SEN as per the Children and Families Act 2014.

I would also speak to the GP about a referral. At least for ADHD but probably also ASD. Is the SALT an NHS SALT? If so, they may be able to refer on, so speak to them as well.

Schools and local authorities cannot refuse to accept independent assessments and diagnoses purely because they are independent.

If you go for a private assessment, I would start with an independent ed psych assessment.

I’m not sure if this is nationwide, or just my dds school; but they are now (last month or so) not taking diagnosis in to account, and ONLY going by what their ‘normal way of working’ in school is. There are so so many dc now that have extra time or whatever that my understanding is that they are trying now to reign it all back in.

@arethereanyleftatall even before last month, diagnosis alone wasn’t enough for extra time. Support in schools and exam access arrangements are based on needs, not diagnosis.

This is fair in one regard, because in the area I live in - affluent - parents will go from private doctor to private doctor to find the one that tells them what they want to hear.

But where it’s very unfair is for the children who mask at school.

And it’s unfair because we now have a situation where some children have already been granted accommodations, and yet children who have higher needs, but more recent, are not granted. If they were going to clamp down, (which is probably right) it should have been done for a whole year group.
or change the whole way exams are done to accommodate all. Ie mix it up - some exams oral, some exams take as long as you need to show knowledge, some fast to show speed of working, like they currently all are. And everyone gets the same.

@arethereanyleftatall JCQ regulations apply to all. You can read them on JCQ’s website. They didn’t change last month.

Similarly, the school shouldn’t be refusing SEN support because needs are recent. The same duties apply that applied before last month. The law hasn’t changed.

DC who mask at school can still receive support and EAA. If DC who are masking are being refused support, their parents should go higher, then formally complain if necessary.

Here is a thought for you. We are a high achieving comprehensive. Of the new year 7 intake, 90 out of 210 have some form of SEN needs. Schools are sinking under the demands of SEN. People are having breakdowns and going off sick. It’s simply getting out of hand. And no more money. I would ask why Op has waited until her child is 15. They have been in education for 11 years. If he is getting a detention every day then there is more to it. Maybe email individual teachers and ask for advice, how he is behaving etc. Have a planner at home and keep an eye on homework deadlines. It’s all online. Work with the teachers, because time is running out and GCSEs are round the corner. If staff had meetings with every parent who demanded one, there would be no one to teach your child. In our district there is a 4 year wait for educational assessments.

he’s had never had clear verbal communication, but it’s getting worse year on year (extremely quiet, stuttering and mumbly - now even we struggle to understand him).

This is really concerning @IvoryRain – have you pursued support for this before now? if so what was the outcome? Unclear verbal comms after nursery age or certainly by end of reception is usually something that is flagged as a concern.

You may already know this, but I just wanted to flag that if you have a ND child then the chance of their sibling being ND (not necessarily with the same diagnosis) is high. Also that adhd increases your chance of being dyslexic and being dyslexic increases your chance of having adhd. So if you can see traits of both, then both would be a likely diagnosis.

My experience with school (although my child is younger) is that any diagnosis helps with things like getting senco meetings, support etc. So I’d pick the one he has most traits of and try to get a private diagnosis for that asap , you can iron out the second one more slowly through nhs.

If you can afford private support I would also look into occupational therapy which can be a game changer for adhd.

What a lazy stereotype. As much as you would like to portray parents in that light, advocating for DC with SEN is not the same as demanding. Requesting a meeting about their child who is not having their SEN met is not the same as demanding a meeting and is not unreasonable. If the school’s best endeavours is not sufficient and they need more resources to meet OP’s DS’s needs, they should support her to request (and appeal for if necessary) an EHCNA (which is governed by statutory timescales) or at least she suggests she does.

OP obviously has done something before now. A referral to SALT for a start.

I don’t teach, but everyone is on their knees.
Parents are now so demanding, any student who is bright and motivated, is getting hardly any attention. You have no clue unless you work in a school. Why do so many parents want toilet passes, pastoral passes, resit passes, inclusion time, medical passes etc - then of course 30% expect their child to have extra time in exams.
Most of this is organised by low paid support staff, who are getting demoralised. They don’t get overtime and therefore it is simply impossible to meet everyone’s needs. Our SENDCO also does a lot of teaching. Whenever I phone a parent, many who seem to work from home, they are rarely available. Our in school attendance is appalling because so many students have the right to leave lessons. Where do they all go? Many are walking the corridors and refusing to go back into lessons. In my job, if I am going to care for students and do my job I have zero time for meetings. If you think the NHS is in a crisis you should start thinking about education.

ADHD can actually be ADD, without hyperactivity.
Autistic spectrum is really wide.

Speech and other skills regression is a serious concern, it can be anything from neurological conditions to autistic burnout to stress, only a specialist in real life can tell. See what SALT say and take it from there but I'd go to GP too. SALT itself may take months to find out what the underlying problem is.

Any speech disorder will obviously affect exam performance, you don't have much time left if he's 15. Stress his wellbeing too in communication with all specialists.

You have neurodivergence running in the family, the probability of your DS2 having it is relatively high.
It's a medical matter, I don't think a school can be of much help initially, and yours obviously can't be bothered anyway.

Parents of disabled children are also on their knees. Having to fight for every scrap of support. It is not demanding to advocate for your child to have their SEN met or for the school to adhere to the law. I know exactly what SEN provision is like at the moment. I have 3 DC with EHCPs and support families with disabled DC day in, day out. It still doesn’t make parents pursuing SEP demanding.

This is because of JCQ guidelines.

Hi OP, I'm sorry to hear the school aren't being helpful. Perhaps your DS has the inattentive profile of ADHD. He could also have ASD like your eldest but a different presentation. As the saying goes, when you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person...

Obviously costs will vary around the country but we paid around £3k for an assessment for ASD and ADHD (the ADOS which is the ASD part is more expensive). Before anyone jumps on me, it was 2020: our GP was willing to refer but everything state run had simply shut down. But no-one has ever raised any concerns about it being done privately and when we did eventually see the NHS they said it was excellent.

Regarding your son's speech, have you looked at the sites below? It might be helpful to narrow down the issues a bit.

Selective Mutism Information & Research Association (SMIRA) https://share.google/p80XjDVz5jjPajwpZ

And

https://share.google/WdNPF6YIZGOy8NDbV

Unfortunately the crap system in this country is you basically have to figure out what's up with your child yourself unless you're very lucky with the school.

You should request an ECHNA though. There's a template letter on the IPSEA website.

The OP is likely to have 'waited' because no one symptom her DS has shown has been enough to trigger concerns on their own, no teacher has raised it, so she's been reassured that his needs were 'normal' and the fact that an older sibling has ASD and this DS is different to them has made her assume that it couldn't be ASD.

I've been there. First with DD2, who wasn't like DD1, then with DD3, who wasn't like DD2. Now all 3 need specialist education but the school didn't flag anything and actively obstructed me getting them help, to the extent that the SENCO refused a direct instruction from the year head to help me apply for an EHCP because she felt DD2 didn't meet the criteria. Not only did she met the criteria, but she was placed straight into an independent special school once the EHCP was finalised.

DD3 was 'fine' until I made a formal complaint that my request for a meeting with the SENCO had been ignored. She spiralled, going from grade 8/9 student to completely out of school. She was also placed in an independent special school once her EHCP was finalised.

Both were year 9/10 when they got to the point of no return.

Can you look at executive function strategies? A diagnosis is not necessarily going to help. What does he struggle with? what can help that he or you can do? Alarms, lists, apps? What is he getting detentions for?

Have you met with his form tutor about your concerns? The SENCo will not know your child. Meet with the tutor and ask them to raise the need for support to be put in place.

It’s time to make a formal complaint. Policy/ procedure should be on the school website. You’ve already been ignored by the head, so I’d consider taking it directly to the governing board.

Realistically, I don't think you have enough time left to wait for NHS assessment, unless your trust is unusually efficient.
It looks like you'll have to go private if you want your DS to pass the exams.

So then you will understand that until people realise we are in a crisis, it’s only going to get worse. Support staff get 7 weeks pay deducted for not working through the holidays, then another week for inset days. Are you then expecting them to work for nothing to clear the back log, when many in full time hours barely take home £1500? As you know, we don’t do the EHCPs and our council is slowly going bankrupt from the costs of these. We have wealthy parents who get a free taxi for their child because they have an EHCP and the Mother doesn’t work…..
No child with an EHCP gets full funding - the school has to make up the difference. Where is all the money from the VAT applied to private school fees? I would love to know.