School ignoring requests for SENCO meeting

[IvoryRain]

We are desperately worried about DS (15)’s learning & development. Something is going on. The issues have become increasingly pronounced over the last 2 years.

Met with the school last year, and they put some support in place - where he could discreetly flag if he’s struggling in class - but teachers have ignored this when he’s tried. I’ve tried reaching out again this year, and have requested a meeting with the school SENCO about his organisation and concentration - twice in writing, and once over the phone (over the phone, they said to email). Second email was CC the head and SENCO after the request to the HoY was ignored for several weeks. Both requests have been polite and constructive. It has been over 2 months since the initial request and no response from either.

I don’t know whether to escalate this to the MAT, but I don’t want to be inflammatory. I know they’re busy, but DS is slipping through the cracks. Meanwhile they’re doling out constant detentions because he’s disorganised, can’t focus, and struggling to complete his work. When we’ve expressed concerns to the school, they’ve brushed the detentions off as not that serious because his behaviour isn’t too bad; it’s mostly about his work. However, he’s still spending almost every lunchtime in detention, and missing lessons as they’re putting him in exclusion if he gets a few in quick succession. He is now becoming disillusioned and no longer sees the point in trying when he gets a detention no matter what he does. We’re supporting as much as we can at home, but tearing our hair out.

I’m wondering whether to try for a referral through his GP, but I don’t know if there’s a diagnosis there, and I really wanted the school’s assessment first. Even if we go down that road, waiting lists will be long and he needs support in school now. Perhaps I’m just being impatient and need to bide my time - or maybe they just don’t think it’s necessary and he’s therefore not entitled to see the SENCO?

He’s also having some communication difficulties which I’ve referred him to SALT for. He’s finally reached the top of the waiting list and has an appt in Jan, but communication is only one element of the issue.

Any advice on how you’d handle?

i am glad your children were put in Independant education, that is what every child should have access to. There are no places in our area. Often these pupils are withdrawn from school and simply wait at home.

DD3 was extremely bright and extremely motivated. I was still getting emails about her 'Oxbridge potential' 7 months after she had crashed out of school - nobody had bothered to take her off the list despite her being in a mental health crisis.

Parents do what is easy. We all do. It's human behaviour. No parent is going to be making efforts to try and communicate with schools when they could just wave their child off at the door and have them come home in the afternoon. If they are making a fuss it's because it's necessary. If the thing they are asking for isn't the answer, they need help with the thing that is the answer.

Fortunately, DD2/3's school understand this and every parent gets a telephone call every single morning of the school week to check how the student has been overnight, if there are any issues that will affect their education, and if anything needs addressing. Every.single.day. In fact, today we went to the cinema for a school private showing of a film. DD3 had a slightly upsetting encounter and this afternoon I got an email from her tutor, who hadn't attended but had been told by another staff member about it.

Mainstream schools can't go to these lengths, naturally. But if they adjusted their attitudes to realise that parental communication is a helpful thing rather than an inconvenience, and if they adjusted their universal provision to account for the most common issues, half the kids wouldn't need the support they do.

Why do so many kids need toilet passes? Because the toilets are locked during lessons and break time is only 35 minutes, so 1300 kids have to get through the lunch queue and the toilets in 35 minutes. That's 37 children per minute between them.

I work with SENCOS and they should absolutely be having a meeting with you to discuss your concerns, gathering feedback from teachers, and with the results of that have a further meeting with you to discuss next steps for possible referrals etc.

Contact the school again - forward your previous email to the SENCO, head of year, the Head, and request a response by X date.
If you get no response I would go to Reception and request to speak to one go the above, and failing that, file a complaint following the school procedure.

While the SENCO cannot diagnose they can point you in the right direction, and if the teachers have highlighted certain issues with behaviour and concentration etc in the classroom, the SENCO can identify some strategies to help support a pupil - some schools may call this a Pupil Passport and it is shared with teachers to help them understand a pupil’s needs and challenges and best ways to support them. You don’t need a diagnosis for this when the SENCO agrees that there is a learning need.

Tbh it’s a bit remiss of the school to be doling out constant detentions and not addressing the reason for these; at our school these things are flagged and addressed but not all schools deal with these things well.

OP does your DS's speech at home get slightly better over long holidays?

You could push both routes : in school and through GP or privately. I have been in similar situation. Contact the governors of the school and copy all your communications with school. Be polite but very angry and disappointed at the total lack of response. Schools are underfunded as we all know. They should still reply and tell you there is no prospect of an assessment within x months. Secondly, try your GP. It sounds like your son is really struggling. If your GP doesn’t have the resources either a private assessment with a psychiatrist will cost around £1000-2000. This can help unlock things like extra time in exams. If he needs medication you have to pay for that privately until he is “settled” with it. I wish you luck. I think a diagnosis can be a massive help. It’s a slog but so much better to understand what support your child needs.

Nowhere have I said I expect support staff to work for nothing. Stop making things up.

Schools can request EHCNAs. They could also suggest parents do.

EHCPs can be fully funded. LAs don’t do this unless forced. As per section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014, LAs are ultimately responsible for securing the SEP in F. That includes ensuring their is adequate funding. This duty is absolute and non-delegable.

Technically LAs don’t go bankrupt. Section 114 reports/notices don’t automatically remove statutory duties.

School transport isn’t solely an SEN issue. The NAO report shows that more than 65% of pupils who are CSA or below who are receiving school transport don’t have SEND. Neither is it means tested.

There are massive generalisations. Taxis are only provided for full timetables. When your child has SEN and they're too unwell to cope with a full timetable, it all falls apart. At one stage I was driving for 5 hours per day to get my children to school. I had one just 2 miles away, but bullying on the bus stopped that being viable. Then another 22 miles away, but she was on an integration timetable, so no transport provided. Then another 30 miles away from there in the opposite direction, and 13 miles from home but she was allocated the same taxi as a girl who had beaten her up at school, so she couldn't take that and they wouldn't provide an alternative. So I was driving 65 miles in the morning, visiting my parents (disability) having a short break at home, then driving 65 miles in the afternoon.

Parents of such DC should be supported to appeal.

Except for wholly independent schools (not all independent schools are wholly independent), a school being ‘full’, which isn’t defined in law, is not enough to refuse to name the placement in I if it is parental preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible with the efficient education of others or use of resources. The bar for this is higher than LAs and many schools admit. It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”.

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, there is EOTAS/EOTIS.

Alongside appealing to SENDIST, they can pursue AP in the meantime. The LA is still responsible for the SEP in F. If the DC is CSA, they are still responsible for ensuring DC receive a suitable full-time education. They don’t simply have to wait at home as much as LAs would like them to.

Haven’t RTFT but you need to go to GP and request Right to Choose. Even if everything were in place for your DS, he would still slip through the cracks, because ADHD is a treatable condition that only improves with meds.

Students may go to the bathrooms at
8.30
9.05
10.05
11.15 - 11.35
12.35
1.35- 2.15
3.20

Each student has a card which will open their year group bathrooms. That is to prevent KS3 having to suffer the endless vaping in the KS4 bathrooms.
It’s always interesting that on school trips the same pupils manage the coach journey…. Or when in my room for 2 hours, waiting for parents to collect, they don’t ask for the bathroom.
Our students with genuine medical needs have medical passes and they can use the accessible toilets, if they prefer.
Medical cards are never questioned.
In a recent email, where teachers were asked which pupils use their toilet card, some leave every lesson. And parents refuse to provide medical evidence. I just hope those same parents don’t blame the school when their students flunk their exams. Imagine trying to give a lesson, with students constantly disrupting it to go to the bathroom.

Never do any of our students get funding for before or after school clubs, break or lunch, or subjects such as Art, cookery, PE. The norm is 15 hours. I guess it varies depending on the local authority. We are in one of the worst areas for funding. Our pupils get 4000 less than those in London.

I admit that sounds awful.
But is that because you chose a school miles away from where you live?

The law is the same in all LAs. SEP is based on needs, not what is ‘the norm’. SEP can cover break, lunch and all subjects. Your school could work with parents to improve EHCPs, including by supporting the parents to appeal if necessary.

Funding for before and afterschool clubs is unusual but also possible depending on the circumstances. Again, it often takes parents fighting for it.

A lot of our pupils win their appeal, but often don’t like what is offered to them. So they then have to wait for a place which they feel would be better. They usually end up in a reduced timetable, which many actually like.

The responses on this thread from the people who work in schools are evidence, if it were needed, of why schools are such awful, hostile places for young people these days.
If so many children need additional supports put in place to just cope with a day at school, doesn't that make you think that there's something wrong with the school? But no, people who work in schools continue to sell this lie that it's the parents and the children that have something wrong with them! It's maddening! Why can't the Department of Education and all these teachers/school staff recognise that it's their expectations that are wrong, not the children.
OP I'd suggest moving to a different school, but I imagine they are all pretty much the same, full of all these poor "on their knees" teachers who are trying to force kids to conform to their rigid expectations with little support or understanding of what children need.
I sat this as a parent of two children with EHCPs who haven't coped in mainstream but are thriving in other environments where their needs are met.

I can honestly say I know that we have never had full time funding. My relative in London got home tutoring for their child with an EHCP. That would never happen here.
We have very pushy parents, so goodness knows what is going on.

Focusing on the positive you have a SaLT appointment. I would be working out what you want from that and making sure you keep some notes of communication issues as you see them.

Id possibly wait to hear what the first appointment feedback if its early to mid-jan and approach the senco again then with some fresh news. Sort of 'i need to discuss with you the salt findings asap as they will be important to child getting good behaviour for learning and making academic progress'

If its a very late Jan appointment you could try 'i have got this appointment and id really value your input before it happens, we've been on the wait list forever and want to grasp our chance'

A lot of our pupils win their appeal, but often don’t like what is offered to them. So they then have to wait for a place which they feel would be better.

@cotswoldsgal1234 I’m not sure what you mean by this. Can you please explain? Section I can be part of appeals, so if parents wanted to pursue a change of placement, it could have been part of their appeal. Do you mean not immediately after the appeal to SENDIST but later down the line a change of placement is then required? Or do you mean their RTA and/or RTI appeals are upheld but they dispute the content/placement of the EHCP when issued?

It is about what is reasonably required to meet their needs and an appropriate placement. It isn’t merely about DC ‘liking’ the support or not. DC aren’t entitled to the best education.

Even if CSA DC can’t attend school full-time, they are still entitled to a suitable full-time education (and for those with EHCPs, the SEP in F). This comes in various forms. One being home tuition. Home tuition either via section 19 of the Education Act 1996 or section 61 of the Children and Families Act 2014 can and does happen across the country. Section 19 provision can be enforced via JR if necessary. EOTAS/EOTIS via section 61 of the Children and Families Act 2014 can be secured via appealing to SENDIST, then if necessary, enforcing the provision via JR.

is that because you chose a school miles away from where you live?

Anyone who had the first clue about special/specialist schooling or even SEN in general wouldn’t post this. It is common knowledge of anyone with the faintest understanding that DC regularly travelling very long distances to the nearest approaching placement.

Thanks again for all your helpful advice - I really appreciate it. Too many to quote individually but I’ll try to respond to some. (Doing so with a broken thumb so typing is slow 😄)

Yes it’s an NHS SALT, and I recall on the referral forms there were various questions around attention span etc, so I’m hoping this is something we can discuss with them.

On whether speech improves over holidays - not always, but there are times he is easier to understand, and his speech is at its worst after a school day. He’s always been painfully shy and we’ve attributed the mumbling to this, but he is starting to come out of his shell and yet the speech issues are only worsening.

I will look into the links and suggestions some of you have shared - thank you. If £3k is the ballpark figure we’d be looking at to go private, we can budget for that so it’s definitely something we’ll be looking into, thank you. I have also just been reading about Right to Choose which will discuss with GP in the first instance, though @Fearfulsaints I think that’s a good suggestion. It’s a week after they go back, so timing probably works.

@Lougle hit the nail on the head. Thank you - and I’m sorry to read about the uphill battle you’ve had as well, along with many other posters here. It really helps to read it though, and makes me feel slightly less like I’m going crazy. Part of the issue is I’ve been afraid of precisely what has been suggested here - ie being too demanding, recognising how much pressure schools are under - so I fear I haven’t advocated hard enough.

I had a meeting with the school last year (initiated by me), and they agreed that his struggling to concentrate and keep up in class was at the root of the issue. They put a support measure in place but teachers have not been doing what they said they would (ie responding to his discreet requests for help), so he’s given up and grown disillusioned. I haven’t had a response when I’ve tried to raise this, but partly why I’d like to talk to the SENCO is to see if something more formal can be put in place.

I sit with him and coach him through his homework several nights a week. He needs a lot of support but shows remarkable depth of insight when finally clicks. When it’s an online hand-in, that’s fine. When it’s a bit of paper, he often forgets to hand it in or loses it, which is another detention. We are trying various approaches to get his organisation on track - had some tiny breakthroughs but it’s a battle. The concentration in class is the biggest concern though, and nothing we’ve tried yet has made any difference. He's had blood tests to rule out any physiological issues - now taking vitamin D but doesn’t need iron etc.

At this stage I’m not looking for extra time or passes etc. unless deemed necessary - I just want to get to the bottom of the problem and then find a solution, whatever that looks like. I hope this benefits the school as well. It can’t be in anyone’s interests for a child to be constantly in detention and in the exclusion room.

@unstablefeeling I agree. We’ve considered moving him - our youngest has gone to a different school, which has a fantastic approach to discipline, rewards & pastoral care. I can’t fault them. We’ve enquired but can’t find out (from them or the LA) if they have spaces until we formally submit an application. They’re usually oversubscribed. DS wants to stay with his friends and I fear uprooting him at this age would do more harm than good, but we haven’t ruled it out.

Ok.

so firstly, it might help to be a bit more specific about what the issues are.

you’ve referred him for salt - on what grounds? Usually salt for kids is one of two issues, either not speaking clearly (usually picked up in preschool or reception) or social communication needs (doesn’t understand what to say when, often goes with autism and is usually spotted at some point in primary.

a new referral at age 15 is unusual - can you clarify what it is for?

re meeting the Senco, at the moment your child does not have a diagnosis and is not on the Sen register.

it’s not obvious that meeting the Senco is going to help your son. Is he in year 11 ie coming up to GCSE’s?

you mention that he is getting lots of detentions for disorganisation and lack of focus, and that if he gets multiple detentions in a day he goes to exclusion - presumably you mean he goes to a room at school rather than being sent home.

what specifically are the detentions for? Most schools have a system where teachers have to log the detentions and write a few words. So for example, not doing homework, etc.

there is a lot that you as a parent can do to help with disorganisation - I have a child (now adult) with adhd and we went through the whole checking school bag every morning, checking online homework every evening, sitting over her until it was done, working out which days were PE etc and making sure she had her kit etc.

how is he doing academically? Is he on track? What are his target gcse grades and is he on track to make them by the most recent mocks?

I don’t work in the SEN unit.
I know from students and parents that there are no places at their preferred choice of education. Most choose a reduced timetable, rather than being home schooled, whilst they wait for a place to become available. But they spend a lot of their time using their reset cards and come to my room, as they like it there!

Be aware some ICB’s have paused RTC referrals.

A diagnosis isn’t required in order for a child to be classed as having SEN. OP’s DS meets the legal definition of having SEN, needs special educational provision to be made, and absolutely should be coded as K.

there are no places at their preferred choice of education.

Then the parents need to appeal to SENDIST. As I said, unless the school is wholly independent, a school being ‘full’, which isn’t defined in law, is not enough to refuse to name the placement in I if it is parental preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible with the efficient education of others or use of resources. The bar for this is higher than LAs and many schools admit. It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. Once the school is named in I, they must admit.

Other than in the small minority of cases where a full-time education in any form is not suitable, the LA should be providing other provision in addition to the part-time school provision to ensure the DC still receive a suitable full-time education. This does not have to be at home. AP comes in many, many forms.

so homework on paper being lost - a way to solve this is either:

each subject has a little a4 plastic folder that has the book for that subject in plus and homework done. This is sorted and kept at home and you put it in when he has that subject the next day. That way the homework is automatically got out in the lesson.

OR

he has one plastic a4 folder that is his homework folder and all homework sheets whether completed or not go in there. He takes the sheets out at home to complete and takes them out of the folder to hand in.

i put the second in place for some year 7s in my form. Didn’t completely solve the problem but certainly meant much more homework got handed in.

you could also photograph the homework before it leaves your house and email it to the teacher. It would at least prove he did it. Some teachers might be happy to accept it instead of paper.