Why is he having a problem with history?

[arcticpandas]

Ds12 y8 is a good student. Average grades in PE, arts and music. Slightly above average come geography, physics, science, technology and English. He's way above average when it comes to maths and Italian and French.

So history is the only subject where he is way below average- and this is while really trying (ofcourse or I wouldn't need to ask why he's failing). So what is it he doesn't get? I have asked to meet his teacher but she's been quite dismissive saying that we will see next year.

I just want to help him but I can't because I don't know why he's having problems. Ok, so there is tons of information and he just mixes everything up in his head. I have helped him make a timeline and mindmaps so he can visualise. I spend time interrogating him before a test but he just keeps messing people and dates up. Like he doesn't get it. I never liked history myself but I know his lessons by heart from having interrogated him but he doesn't!

Has anyone had this problem? And I told him that it's fine if he's not getting good grades in one subject but he is so gutted after making so much efforts and not seeing any results from it. It's eating away on his selfesteem. I wish I could blame the teacher but since other students manage to understand I really can't...

If someone has any advice (teacher/former student/mum) it would be lovely..

Get him to teach you. Thats the best way of learning.

I’d just be taking the pressure off tbh. Some of your language such as “ he’s failing” and “ interrogating him” really won’t be helping his self esteem.
His teacher doesn’t seem too concerned.
If History isn’t his subject surely he can drop it when he takes his options.
Let him concentrate on his other subjects.
I’d be encouraging him to just do his best and help him to realise that it’s OK to not be good at everything.

"I’d be encouraging him to just do his best and help him to realise that it’s OK to not be good at everything."

Agree, in fact it could be a valuable lesson that it's OK not to be good at everything which will be better for his self esteem in the long run. Do you think maybe your ambivalence toward the subject may be rubbing off on him?

I have a degree in history. It just doesn’t float some people’s boats and that’s OK. If he’s doing well in other subjects it doesn’t matter in Y8 - he doesn’t have to choose it for GCSE. I never had any aptitude for physics and it’s never bothered me (or my parents).

History is hard. My child took it for GCSE and the teacher said it’s alot of dates and names to remember that kids struggle with it.

My daughter took Spanish at GCSE and was hopeless at it. Got a 3! But her dad and I weren't worried because she was good at most other things except maths and PE. She got a 5 in Maths thankfully. The PE she dropped as soon as she could.

My mantra was Do YOUR Best. Not anyone else's. If your best doesn't make the cut, that's fine, as long as you know you tried.

Does it matter? Does he plan to do History GCSE? Is he actually that interested?

People have different skills - my grip of History took years to develop. In my “place based” mind, all the things i was learning in History might as well have been happening at the same time in different places. I’m not bad with numbers and my job draws on these stengths. Still a bit shaky on History though!

Probably doesn’t have the slightest bit of interest in it and that’s ok. He doesn’t need to pass everything, no big deal if he’s doing well in the subjects he likes. Give the kid a break.

It doesn't sound like exactly the problem you have here [if e.g. remembering dates & so on are more the issue] but for history it can sometimes be useful to get kids to practice writing 'point evidence explanation' paragraphs for trivial/everyday things like, say 'why geography is more interesting than history', 'why football is better than cricket' or whatever.

Interesting. Maybe that's why I learnt all his lessons even though I never liked history..I will try to make him interrogate me next time and I'll tell you if it works. Thank you.

I am absolutely fine with him not being a good history student- I wasn't either. I have told him to be happy with what you're good at which is already amazing. He is the one who's unhappy. He would be fine with average but he's frustraded getting shitty grades while really trying so I just wanted to see if I could help him find a revising strategy to help him get to average.

@arcticpandas
Wasn’t being unkind just trying to take the pressure off both of you. I’ve lots of experience of children and young people being hard on themselves
( Mum and retired teacher)
Schools often do study skills talks for pupils and parents in Y9. Timelines and mind maps are a great start maybe let him lead on the quizzing when he’s ready.
Our youngest daughter was v organised when it came to revision. She used lots of colour coding for topics themes etc, index cards for chunks of info and smaller coloured edged cards for definitions, dates and facts. She also used to walk round when embedding the facts.

History is hard. Maybe he finds it boring? I know I did and then my history teacher would tell us ‘stories’ which made it all come alive and stick in our heads, which made it easier to remember. Eg I still remember to this day his Rosa Parks story about she was this old lady who was so tired she didn’t have the energy to go to the back of the bus so she sat at the front. Once that stuck then it was easy to remember that it was actually a protest move rather than tiredness. I found that if it was easy to visualise the scene then it stuck. Not sure if that’s helpful but it really helped my interest in history which I still have today.

Can I just check your wording, you use the word 'interrogate' which gives quite an intense picture, like you are asking him lots of questions about what he has learnt several times a week - i presume this is just the way you've worded it, can you walk us through what you are actually doing and maybe people can give more targeted advice?

I was good at everything except science. No matter how much I revised I forgot everything in the exam or muddled things up. I labelled a diagram as a feather when apparently it was a fish. History isn’t his thing. Stop worrying. It isn’t usually all about dates these days. Can you find him some easy to read books on the topics that might bring it to life?

Yes I think that's it: he can't really distinguish timelines so everything gets muddled up. And all the facts and dates just confuses him. But he also seems to have a reading comprehension problem in history which he doesn't in any other subject. But we might have to work on acceptance that it's hard for him rather than improvement of his skills.

Absolutely important that he understands he doesnt have to be good at everything.

However it would be a shame for him to find it really boring - history is the study of people and why they did what they did, and why we have the world we have now ( and reconciling different versions of this).

What else is he interested in? What TV programmes does he like? What games? Might you be able to visit some places that would spark an interest?
Some people are more interested in military history or kings and queens, others find social or cultural history more interesting. I love the history of medicine, my father loves the history of engineering - steam trains and machines. The rise of association football and how it was used politically and for sectarian purposes is interesting to me.

I wonder if there is something in how this teacher teaches (I had a teacher for another subject who transcribed her own notes onto the board which we then dutifully copied into our own books. Occasionally she would do a demo. It was boring and ineffective).

I would also want to rule out some basics - can he hear and see the teacher and any board or screen? Is he distracted in the lesson by another pupil (directly or indirectly)? Has something happened which has switched him off or created a negative association which his brain isnt getting past?

Exactly what I say. All you can do is your best and that's enough. I just hoped that there was some secret to revising and understanding history that I didn't know of😅

@Mulledjuice wonder if there is something in how this teacher teaches (I had a teacher for another subject who transcribed her own notes onto the board which we then dutifully copied into our own books. Occasionally she would do a demo. It was boring and ineffective).

Yes, this is what the teacher does unfortunately. But I don't want to do any teacher bashing because I know it's hard work and also other pupils seem to be able to learn. I think it would be fantastic if my son had a passionate teacher who gave something more than just the dry facts but it is what it is.

would also want to rule out some basics - can he hear and see the teacher and any board or screen? Is he distracted in the lesson by another pupil (directly or indirectly)? Has something happened which has switched him off or created a negative association which his brain isnt getting past?

He hears and sees and he's not distracted by other pupils (asked those questions :). I think that he now defines himself as "dumb" when it comes to history so the whole subject got this negative connotation to it. He says he does listen and take notes but he's not capable to say what the lesson was about. He says that since he spends his time copying he doesn't "think".

Worth thinking about whether he might be dyslexic or have any traits along those lines.

History is pretty demanding on reading comprehension and sequence recall.

Even if dont think he is - looking at study skills techniques for those with dyslexia may help.

It could be a non connection with the teacher or he's not picking up on what he's supposed to be doing. I see you talking a great deal about dates and timelines. That's old fashioned History. It's all about him giving what they want so an understanding of that is vital. It's more about critical thinking and assessment of sources. Perhaps buy a history revision guide book.

He says that since he spends his time copying he doesn't "think".

THis is probably the answer then - her teaching style doesn't match his learning style. DD (who is studying history at uni) had an issue with one of her A level topics. The first 2 terms the teacher taught by delivering a lecture duing which she took notes (active learning) it really suited her. Some of the other pupils struggled to learn this way so the second year he taught by getting them to copy and that didn't work for her as her brain switched off - your DS is probably the same. (Her older sister had the opposite problem - she couldn't follow a history teacher who lectured and didn't have notes for her to take away and copy out so I ended up having to prepare them for her). Can you get DS to read through his notes and put them into a lecture he can give to you so that he is doing something with the information rather than just learning it.

"He says he does listen and take notes but he's not capable to say what the lesson was about. He says that since he spends his time copying he doesn't "think".

Is he taking notes or trying to transcribe? It's a different skill.

What about trying to find some non curriculum materials about whatever topic he's studying - TV, film, book - even a fiction book might help him grasp some of the basic facts, depending on what it is. It does sound a dull teaching style, and I think you're more likely to remember things if you're actually interested! I love history, and it is one of the topics where there's so much good semi-fictional stuff out there.

Also, bear in mind it might just be this particular topic he's finding hard. He may get on better with a change of subject matter next term or whenever. Even for a history buff like me there are some less interesting bits. It's such a massive subject area and I think there's a history topic or era for everyone, so I hope he doesn't give up on the subject completely.

That's what I was going to say - has he tried reading history fiction for fun OP? Just to try and add some human dimension to dry "names".

"The Three Musketeers" is not an accurate historical account by any means, but it's hard not to remember the key figures after reading it :)

There is also a myriad of non-fiction books like these ones for example, some are perfectly accessible.