Teacher or subject dependent selective behaviour

[Blablaboom]

DS has just started secondary but in his old prep school. He will move to a new school in y9.
Unfortunately, DS seems to select which lessons he behaves/works well in and which he can just ignore. If he finds the teacher boring or if he dislikes the subject, he does not apply himself or sometimes distract others. He's already had several detentions. We've had several meetings with his form tutor. There doesn't seem to be much change. His homework has improved compared to September but in class, it seems to be the same. Likes teacher/subject, no problem. Dislikes the teacher/subject, plays up.
Anyone been there? How do you make the child accept that he's got to respect teachers or subjects in the same way? DS is very strong willed (always has been). The school think we should test for ADD. We think he's just decided to do what he likes. A battle of wills.
Thank you!
(I will ignore all the can't you control your kid trolling type comments)

As a teacher, if the school think he needs testing for ADHD, then please listen and do so. We don’t say this to parents lightly. This is very typical ADHD behaviour and my daughter is the same.

I dont feel particularly engaged in subjects that don't interest me. Being disrespectful to people is a totally different issue related to the values that have been instilled in him. I would insist on respect for other people, not subjects.

If he doesnt know how to be respectful or thinks that other people aren't deserving of respect, that's an entirely different problem in him.

Whether DS has ADD or not, we, and the school think the same, think that the strategies will be the same.

What strategies have you got for your daughter please? At school and at home. Thanks

It’s possible he has ADHD; many of the children in my (secondary) school who present this way have ADHD.

Medication is the treatment; DS1 is medicated and it’s been life-changing for him. You will need to investigate how to get an assessment; perhaps speak to the SENDCo.

There were always teachers that were not good at controlling a class to my shame we treated them terribly, playing up and girls teasing the male teachers by making inappropriate comments. Is it only your child?

If a child doesn't like a subject, has fallen behind or doesn't think they are good at it the temptation is to not engage and 'pretend' they don't care. If you can't be good at it be the joker.

In the classroom I would have him sat right at the front, close to the teacher so he can't get away with anything without being seen and the teacher can keep a close eye on the work he is or isn't doing. At home just make sure he is keeping up and doing all his homework.

Sounds adhd.

Medication works.

Thank you. Yes, he might need medication. If he has ADD, it will be beneficial.

I'm just not convinced he has ADD. I know they all present differently but he's never had problems sleeping. Neither falling asleep or waking up at night or, if waking up at night (which happens very rarely, I can only think of once outside of being bunged up and Christmas eve and birthday eve), he goes back to sleep by himself.

DS1 doesn’t have problems sleeping, either. Before he was medicated, he used to fall off his chair all the time, shout out, interrupt, screw up his work. He’s displays none of those behaviours since meds.

Another thing that makes us doubt ADD is that fact that until now, he's been at the school for 5 years, there was no mention of this. He did get sanctions sometimes but clearly, his behaviour wasn't what it is now. But now, new team of teachers and it's a problem. Even DS says he gets "picked upon" for things now that last year wouldn't have caused a problem.

Thoughts?

I have 2 with ADHD. One slept like a log, one has problems.

ADHD is harder to mask the higher they go. So he’s been able to mask it until y9

Ah. That's useful to know. Thank you

One of my DDs was just like this. Loathed one subject most of the way through school and was always in trouble from the same teacher. However, she took this subject for A level - with the same teacher - and got A* then went to uni to study it further. She actually found the subject really easy so was likely bored, plus she’s not great at being told what to do 😂.
In reality, many people are like this! If I had to sit and watch a football match I’d be bored silly and likely be very chatty, fidgety and generally unrelaxed. The kids I teach can be a nuisance in certain lessons if they don’t really like that subject. It doesn’t mean they’re ND.

Maybe his teachers have higher expectations now he’s older?

Any tip on getting through this year? 😬

I can massively recommend the book “How not to murder your ADHD kid”. Brilliant book.
Medication is honestly the best thing for school.
In the meantime, he needs positivity and praise, seating near front and instructions repeated and for teachers to check he actually understands tasks and what to do. Often the disruptive behaviour is to mask struggles with the work. He may well need help getting started.

It honestly sounds like he is just disrespectful.

As a teacher, what worked best to improve challenging behaviour in class was when parents gave solid consequences at home for misbehaviour at school. All the teacher can really do is detention, but the detentions aren’t working - it’s not enough of a deterrent for him.

What will really impact him? For example - - confiscating his phone/ games machine, not allowing him to go to sport club that week/friend’s house etc. Make it clear to him and then follow through next time the teacher calls you.

Possibly different expectations as he moves up the school, he’s learned how to push things just far enough and now the rules have tightened or he’s got a name for being disruptive and they’re onto his every move. You know your child best so you’ll have an idea of whether it’s behavioural or developmental - having potential ADHD doesn’t mean there’s nothing he can control, it’s finding out what’s what that can be tricky.

Whether he has ADHD or not he’ll need to learn strategies for coping with people and tasks he doesn’t enjoy so I’d be talking to him about the difference in him between subjects where he’s doing well and ones where he’s struggling. Any assessment is going to take a while and he still needs to manage at school.

Him having an awareness of how thinks about a subject or person, he feels physically and emotionally and how that impacts his behaviour can help him work out what he can change or what he needs to do and the support he might need.

Does he need to sit somewhere particular, be near certain kids or away from others, does he need a fixed routine for that class so he has more mental capacity to deal with with the “I’m bored” bit. Work with him to help him figure it out, with clear messages about your expectations for him.

Interesting how your son is the one with the problem and not the school. It’s pretty obvious from your post that he plays up in classes that have weak and ineffective teachers. Any subject can be made to be interesting with the right teacher. Yet somehow he’s the one with the problem.

@Blablaboom We now have a society that seeks medication or a diagnosis for every issue! It’s not appropriate in your DS’s case I would think.

I find it interesting that he’s enjoying some subjects and not others. I think you might find it’s the pace of the lesson and how it’s delivered, as well as subject matter. What subjects? MFL? English?

My neighbours DS started playing up in y6 - bored! He eventually went to Cambridge. His school never extended the work he was given and he didn’t have enough to do. I know not all teachers are the same and some can be very dry. They don’t match lesson content to dc - they just deliver the same lesson year after year. Have you actually analysed how your dc is being taught? What does DS say about the lessons?

What about the opposite? He’s not bored, he’s struggling in some subjects so acts up to cover it up. This is not unusual too. Again, you need a better conversation with DS and the teachers. The teachers must know if he’s struggling or not.

What is planned for y9? Where is he going? Has DS snd you got a school in mind?

Lastly, some dc are very compliant and just accept poor teaching. Others less so. I would also look at how DS gets his entertainment. Fast paced gaming? Then lessons seem slow? Is he reacting better to pacy lessons? Humour in lessons? Group work? Look at where he reacts well. Is enjoying sport?

I would also think they have ramped up the work and he’s possibly finding this hard in some subjects. I’d definitely try and talk to DS about his feelings and how he can learn to be more compliant within class. Assuming he wants to stay at the school of course.

As a teacher for 30 years this is crap.

’weak and ineffective’ teachers get weeded out. And even if they are like that he should still behave. The issue is the child not the teacher.

I find it interesting that he’s enjoying some subjects and not others this is standard profile for ADHD. Hyper focus in things they enjoy.

As a teacher this is far from crap. Every teacher can list several fellow teachers in every school they’ve worked
in that really shouldn’t be in the job.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow They don’t in prep schools! That’s where the ineffective one can end up! Only 15-18 in a class and allowed to regurgitate old lessons and no Ofsted! Blame the dc! Prep schools definitely have poor teachers and the compliant dc in the schools put up with it. I’m not sure you have experience of prep schools. They always blame the dc. They don’t monitor teachers or even expect high quality teaching in some cases. Short terms, racing through the curriculum and not checking dc have understood everything is fairly normal in some preps.

Is there a common theme between the subjects he plays ip in. Are they ones thst rely on literacy or maths ones with less movement etc. Or is it really teacher personality?