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Secondary education

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Original poster

GCSE english lit - how important?

47 replies

babylone · 02/12/2025 20:49

Please help me settle this with my child.
Predicted grades in top 8 subjects would be between 7-8-9s with 9s in maths and triple science.
english lang predicted a 7
english lit a 3

is it possible to fail english lit and still go on a very competitive- science heavy - 6th form?
or do you need a pass (5?) in english lit for competitive 6th form.
my child is planning to take maths, further maths, chemistry and biology for A level.

my question is should i agree to let him fail English lit lit or should i push for a 5?
thanks alot

OP posts:
CarrierbagsAndPJs · 02/12/2025 20:51

Why is eng lit so far off every other subject? That is what I would be asking.

Language is the essential one.

LIZS · 02/12/2025 20:52

He should try to pass as best he can. If his english skills are relatively week it might become an issue , even in science subjects. Competitive sixth forms can afford to be choosy.

MellowPinkDeer · 02/12/2025 20:54

It’s a strange one to be so far behind in? What’s the issue? They are look for comprehension here. If they are doing well in English language I don’t really understand, what are the texts?

CurlewKate · 02/12/2025 20:55

Surely it depends on what the 6th form asks for? But I would want to know what’s goo going on with the 3….

Original poster
babylone · 02/12/2025 21:06

CurlewKate · 02/12/2025 20:55

Surely it depends on what the 6th form asks for? But I would want to know what’s goo going on with the 3….

Rebellious teenager, that is what is happening with the 3. 😩

OP posts:
Original poster
babylone · 02/12/2025 21:16

Website states: “Eight or more full GCSEs”
what do they mean by “full” GCSEs? Can eng lang be a “full” GCSE or does it needs to be paired with engl lit to be considered a “full” GCSE? Thank you!

OP posts:
MellowPinkDeer · 02/12/2025 21:19

It’s one on its own but I still can’t understand why he can’t read a book and answer questions when he’s so good at everything else !

clary · 02/12/2025 21:20

I agree, it's unlikely that he needs Eng lit for sixth form or uni (Eng lang is usually the request) but be aware that some competitive sixth forms ask for a grade average of (x) number (eg 7!). Not any near me haha but I have read about it on MN. Certainly ask the school about the Eng lit grade as it wil advise you best.

But yes I agree with others, what's going on with the grade 3? That's a big dip from a 7 in lang. DS2, similar ability to your DS, grades 6-7-8-9 at GCSE, was really not keen on Eng lit but he managed a 6. I would interrogate this a bit and find out what's going on. A 3 in a core subject (which it is) doesn't look great on your CV. What texts is he doing @babylone ? Does he just hate them? Can he see tho the value of maybe applying himself to an unloved subject and seeing how much he can improve? If he is on a 7 in Eng lang and similar grades in other subjects (presumably a humanity of some kind?) he must have the compreension and writing skills to make him capable of a better grade.

clary · 02/12/2025 21:21

babylone · 02/12/2025 21:16

Website states: “Eight or more full GCSEs”
what do they mean by “full” GCSEs? Can eng lang be a “full” GCSE or does it needs to be paired with engl lit to be considered a “full” GCSE? Thank you!

Edited

Yes English language is a full GCSE. They mean not short course (actually not sure if you can still do these but my school used to offer short course RE for example - half a GCSE. And short course MFL used to be an option too).

Does the website give required grades?

LIZS · 02/12/2025 21:21

babylone · 02/12/2025 21:16

Website states: “Eight or more full GCSEs”
what do they mean by “full” GCSEs? Can eng lang be a “full” GCSE or does it needs to be paired with engl lit to be considered a “full” GCSE? Thank you!

Edited

They are separate gcses. Sometimes you can get a half gcse equivalent such as if RS is compulsory. The stated entry grades are a minimum to qualify for a place. They may read a grade 3 anomaly as a student capable but lazy.

herbalteabag · 02/12/2025 21:23

It's English Language that's important but there is no reason that he can't pull his grade up by working harder - my son didn't like literature but he pulled his grade up from 5 to 7 just before the exam.

clary · 02/12/2025 21:23

Ah just googled and short course MFL no longer exists, as I thought, but short course RE does. Being phased out tho. I imagine the sixth form is saying that won't count.

Knittedanimal · 02/12/2025 21:28

It's pretty hard to get top grades in Lit based on dds gcse cohort results, it's a different way of thinking/applying knowledge to most other subjects.
6th forms round here ask for a certain number of gcses at a certain grade, specific subjects if taking particular a levels. Based on this, he shouldn't have a problem if he's only doing STEM subjects.

Wildflowers78 · 02/12/2025 21:35

babylone · 02/12/2025 21:16

Website states: “Eight or more full GCSEs”
what do they mean by “full” GCSEs? Can eng lang be a “full” GCSE or does it needs to be paired with engl lit to be considered a “full” GCSE? Thank you!

Edited

No. English language is a completely separate GCSE to English literature. Personally I’d look at getting him a tutor - with English a good teacher makes the world of difference and I’d suspect this is the root cause of the issue. There’s no reason he can’t do reasonably well in English literature, he’s obviously academically capable. DD hated English literature but it’s not particularly difficult with good notes and guidance - she got a 7.

MigGirl · 02/12/2025 21:53

Oddly enough I know about lad in this situation he only got a 3 in his English lit and 9 in maths and further maths. Plus good results in hos other GCSE'S. He's doing 4 A-levels, Maths, further maths, physics and Chemistry. So the college have been happy to take him. I'm sure he'll do well in his A-levels as they are subjects he enjoys. But no they aren't bothered by his 3 in lit like your son I believe he was capable as got a good grad in English language.

TBH I really don't think we should make kids do English literature if they aren't interested in the subject. It's actually to difficult for a lot of weaker students as well.

MigGirl · 02/12/2025 21:58

Wildflowers78 · 02/12/2025 21:35

No. English language is a completely separate GCSE to English literature. Personally I’d look at getting him a tutor - with English a good teacher makes the world of difference and I’d suspect this is the root cause of the issue. There’s no reason he can’t do reasonably well in English literature, he’s obviously academically capable. DD hated English literature but it’s not particularly difficult with good notes and guidance - she got a 7.

Edited
Show quote history

The problem with that is your talking about the difference between a girl and boy. DD also hated English lit but got a 7, but even though I think her brother is academically more able I can't see him putting in the effort into the subject. He really can't be bothered and he knows he doesn't needed it for the subjects he's interested in.

I'll still be pushing him to do the work, but if he's not motivated to put in much effort I don't see him doing that well.

FKAT · 02/12/2025 22:03

You need to look at the 6th form entry criteria and subject criteria. Can he write essays? You can get 9s in science and maths without ever needing to write more than a paragraph. If he cannot write essays or do comparative analysis that is the issue. The 3 in English Lit suggests he doesn't/won't read - that will be a problem at A-Level.

clary · 02/12/2025 22:28

@MigGirlI agree with you that Eng lit GCSE as it stands is beyond the ability of a number of YP and that’s not Ok. But @babylone’s ds is not in that group if he is working at a 7 in Eng lang. He’s clearly capable of reading a passage, understanding it and writing about language techniques. So a 6 in Eng lit should be achievable.

I don’t agree about boys and girls tho. As I said, my ds2 got a 6 with little interest in the subject. It’s a shame really to cast such a wonderful subject (tho I agree the GCSE drains the life out of it for many, sadly) as not being interesting to any boys. Some boys and for sure some girls too. But there were boys in DD’s Eng lit A level class.

Aluna · 02/12/2025 22:32

He just needs to get his arse in gear, and get a tutor. In the context of the rest of his results it may just be poor teaching that’s turned him off.

What are his texts?

Echobelly · 02/12/2025 22:37

I guess it would affect mark average, but as his others are high he should be able to go on to A levels all right. I believe it's only English Language you need a minimum mark in - eg to prove you can write an essay for subjects like history. You don't need to prove you can do literary analysis or follow Shakespeare. I suppose you might need a strong lit mark to take English A-level, but I doubt many kids who don't do well in Lit will want to do English anyway - it will effectively be more like Lit at A-level, or at least I assume so.

OP - is the block learning quotes, given they can't take texts in? That's what I worry about for DS; he has ADHD and will have real trouble with that.

I've looked at some 6th form criteria lately and I haven't seen any criteria demanding an Eng Lit mark, though I wasn't looking at English.

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 02/12/2025 22:43

What are his other subjects? Any other essay-based ones? As PPs have said, English language is the really essential one to do well in but I can't see how it would be so difficult for someone with the intellect to do well in 8 other subjects to not manage to scrape a 5 - that's a C in old money, right? - in English literature.

I think some of it is mindset, though; I recall from my own time at school that some kids feel like English literature is just pointless over-analysing and don't really get to grips with what you need to do well in the subject. But I firmly believe you can be analytical about it (learning to "decode" the text) in the same way you can be analytical about a maths or chemistry problem and this should hopefully be enough for a 5.

clary · 02/12/2025 22:47

@Echobelly Eng lit and Eng lang A level are very different qualifications. Yes if you got a 3 in Eng lit GCSE then Eng lit A level is not for you but then I suspect that is not the OP's DS.

Don't let your DS get too worried about the quotes – no examiner is looking for reams of quotations as a memory exercise; it's much more about picking out a crucial phrase "ape-like fury" - "I defy you stars" and showing how it is relevant to your theme. Actually taking the text in often means students waste time hunting up a specific quotation. It’s much more about understanding of charcters and themes.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2025 23:11

FKAT · 02/12/2025 22:03

You need to look at the 6th form entry criteria and subject criteria. Can he write essays? You can get 9s in science and maths without ever needing to write more than a paragraph. If he cannot write essays or do comparative analysis that is the issue. The 3 in English Lit suggests he doesn't/won't read - that will be a problem at A-Level.

It suggests he doesn’t/won’t read and analyse fiction. or maybe just not the sort of fiction used for English lit set texts.

Justmadesourkraut · 02/12/2025 23:35

English Lit teacher here. No it won't affect his future as long as he doesn't have any other blips in other sibjects.

He may get asked about the grade 3 at 6th form interviews. He should aim to have a relatively short answer - I really didn't get on with Victorian literature/Shakespeare/whatever. Keep it simple and don't moan about the teacher /poetry/ whatever.
On the other hand, if he's that bright and still wants to, he could easily pull up to a 5 by using Bbc bitesize to revise. Have some simple quotes memorized and be able to explain how certain key words create a certain impression . . .

(Mum of a bolshy boy here too. French was his nemesis!)

Aluna · 03/12/2025 10:18

I felt about physics the way your son feels about Eng Lit. It was one of the compulsory subjects at my school so I had no choice.

But I still pulled off a B (old money no A stars) with a little revision as I figured that bombing physics for the sake of it made me look petulant and a bit thick.

Theres no reason he can’t pull off a reasonable grade with a small amount of effort.

The maturity to understand that life sometimes means doing things we don’t like and not having a strop about it is a useful career skill.