Is a standardised score of 115 on Atom enough for St Pauls/City/Godolphin & Latymer pls

[Sal210873]

I know it also depends on the scores of other children that year. My daughter is state school educated and wants to get into St Paul's or City. I want to manage her expectations. Is there a different scoring if you are state or privately educated?

It’s a few years since we did our 11+ but at the time this is what we were advised by the prep and I thought it might be helpful to you:

St. Paul’s Girls’ 130+
LEH - 120+
Wycombe Abbey 130+
St Paul’s 130+
Winchester 125+
Eton 125+
King’s Wimbledon 125
City of London 125+
Latymer Upper120+
Dulwich 120+
Harrodian 115+
Emanuel 115+

115 puts your DD in the top of middle bracket for entries at 11+ . Anecdotally I keep hearing that London day school applications are rocketing as parents can no longer afford/justify boarding fees since the VAT increase.

usually when you do 11+ you have a banker school (one you should get in to ) , a middle choice that should be achievable but it’s not a given and an aspirational choice - one you might get if you perform well in the exam against the co-hort that are also sitting it. Do you have 3 schools identified that fit this criteria? St Paul’s and city would be your aspirational in your DD’s case so you should also have middle and back up in mind .

Sorry but over got no idea if they apply extra weighting for state candidates or not - hopefully someone else can come along and advise .

Atom scores are generally 8-12 points below the equivalent CAT score. The numbers that @incognito119 has provided are the average CAT scores that successful applicants are said to have (but that is up for debate, as mentioned in lots of other threads on MN).

So 115 would be equivalent to up to around 127 CAT, which is the right region for City but possibly not quite high enough for SPG.

The first response was broadly correct. That score is not typical of successful candidates for Spgs and city would probably be tough. Godolphin and latymer might be possible, depending on the adapative scoring

This table was provided by Atom a few years ago. It shows the difference at that time between Atom scores and CAT scores. The gap between the two has widened since then.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4749433-cat-scores-required-for-sw-london-boyscoed-independent-schools?reply=124146983&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

This is so hopeful, thank you. She likes South Hampstead and Godolphin plus Francis Hollaand is with walking distance??/

Okay, thank you so much again. This is incredibly useful too. Yes, it is an Atom score. Do you know how I can find out if there are any discrepancies for state schools, please? She prefers City and St Pauls??? Let's see.

Do you happen to know if the same levels apply to both boys and girls?

What year is your daughter currently in? The score should increase in Year 6.

She is in year 6. She reached a 122 standardised score. According to Atom, the top 7% but I have no idea. Did it today. Let's see.

Just jumping on this thread- my DS cat 4 was 130 last month, he has just sat the habs assesment and has St albans and UCS in Jan. His atoms are averaging around 120 (some lower and some higher) no idea if this is too low for the selective schools. We sat Aldenham as our back up.

I don’t know about UCS or Habs but my son was averaging 120 on Atom last year. I suspect he had a particularly good day but he got an academic scholarship to St Albans.

She is the same now, averaging between 115 - 130 now. She sat City and St Pauls

She should be able to pass R1 of SPGS and City, which is quite similar to ATOM format. But the tricky one is the R2 written tests, particularly for SPGS. The format and requirements are quite different from the ATOM mock in our experience

DD usually gets an SAS of around 120 on Atom but gets 130+ in school-set CAT4s (sometimes 141). I think Atom deliberately mark down. I’d say go for St Paul’s & City. There’s more to the entrance process than the exam results. Good luck to your DD.

As @starfall1 said, that should be enough to pass the CEM 1st stage. It's just an initial sift. SPGS cut out about 50% of applicants at that stage.

Are you using a tutor? If so, I won't offer advice re the written papers for SPGS and CLSG as you'll probably know it all. But that's when the real assessment happens.

And - as has been said many times on MN - Atom definitely mark down to make people panic and keep paying the subscription.

Thank you @Blinkofaneye2. We heard today that she got through to City. She does have a tutor who is looking for past papers for me. We hear tomorrow for St Paul's. Any tips on the written papers will be greatly appreciated, pls.

She passed R1 at City. We’ll hear from St Paul’s tomorrow. Could you please advise on the revision format she needs to use and any other insights that would be helpful? Many many thanks

p.s I don't know it at all. We used Atom and a once-a-week tutor.

For anyone whose child got an academic scholarship or exhibition, what kind of scores were they getting on Atom? DS is getting between 130 and 142 on all the Atom tests (usually 142 for maths and verbal reasoning, 130s for English and NVR), but is not so good at creative writing. No tutoring and can’t afford one.

Scholarships are usually not worth much. Usually just 10% or 20% of school fees. Bursaries on the other hand are a different story.

Creative writing you can work on yourself. It is actually not that difficult. You can look up what they are looking for and get your dc to practice every week....if they are getting such high scores, they do not need to worry about those areas so much and focus on writing if that is what his target school requires (which in our case all the boy schools do).

@Sal210873 Congrats on the CLSG second stage. Did your DD get through to SPGS R2?

@hopsalong the CAT score in itself doesn't really give you the right measure to see if your child might qualify for an academic scholarship. There are many children with very high CAT scores who won't get academic scholarships. CAT score is more about logical / reasoning ability. Academic scholarships are often awarded to the top scorers in the entrance exam (hence very well prepared for Maths and English) who are also very dedicated students with high curiosity, academic interests and excellent school reports. The type of children who like to go above and beyond.

My DC had a CAT score of 140 but did not get a single academic scholarship at any school, even our "back ups". She is smart enough to get by with minimal effort - the peers with academic scholarships at her secondary are those who voluntarily enter competitions, study additional languages, do all sorts of clubs and so forth.

I am sure these children have high CAT scores, too, but my point is, if you want to know if your child might qualify for an academic scholarship, their performance at their current school gives you more info. Are they the top student in their primary school? Do they go above and beyond? Do they love reading and learning beyond what is taught at school? Are they likely to score 95%+ on their Maths and English papers?

Thank you @Blinkofaneye2. Unfortunately, no, she didn’t get through to St Paul’s. I bought one City Girls Stage 2 practice paper for Maths and English £25 for one paper?? Well 2 as Maths and English) and watched their video on what they are looking for but I can't see any creative writing mock papers for Stage 2 on Atom? I know there are Maths papers, but I’m baffled that there aren’t any English papers. She’s strong at English, but I think she needs to practise more atmospheric writing. Any tips will be appreciated.

Have PMd you.