CAT scores required for SW London boys/coed independent schools

[Carmenbeeeater]

Hi,

My son is 18 months away from sitting the 11/13+, so we are at the very beginning of the process.

However I am feeling a little in the dark as to which schools we should be looking at and attending open days for etc, based on his ability and academic potential.

His Year 4 mean CAT score was 125, with very similar scores in all areas (ranging from 123 at the low end (NVR) and 128 (Quant) at the top end).

He is at a prep, so we will no doubt get guidance and advice from the head in the first term of Year 5. But in the meantime it would be good to get an understanding of the current average CAT scores required for the SW London independent schools.

Schools I currently consider possibly realistic are:

KGS
Emmanuel
Reeds
Epsom
St John's

I would also be interested to look at Hampton, RGS and KCS, but I suspect that his CATS might be too low/ these would be stretch schools. But be interested to hear thoughts on these too.

I have quite a strong view that I want my son to be happy, comfortable and thrive in his school environment, rather than scraping into a school and struggling to keep up.

He is confident, well spoken and happy boy who enjoys school very much and has a real love of learning. He is also very conscientious and happy to work hard, however but he is not at all competitive, quite quiet compared to his peers and would probably struggle in a very Alpha/highly competitive environment.

I'm aware this question has been asked many times before, however my understanding is schools are becoming increasingly selective and so the goal posts/CAT scores are constantly moving.

Thanks in advance!

Apologies for the typos!

I have a two year old report from Atom showing average cat store and Atom Sas of students in their database (tens of thousands apparently) vs the school offers they received.

Atom does not publish that anymore, but hopefully two year old report is good enough still.

I need to dig it out once and I get home and will share it here, just leaving a note so I don't forget or lose this thread. Will post tonight

Thank you!

125 should be good enough for all those schools. I wouldn't exclude KCS either bc while ppl say 130+ better, he's in y4 and he might well improve, I would say 125 is high enough and then it depends on his actual Maths and English and how much he studies. But i think with 125 the likes of KGS, Emanuel, Epsom should be totally fine assuming good academic scores and interview and so forth. I know quite a few kids who had 120-125 in year 4 and are not at LU - with tutoring, but I wouldn't get hung up on the exact score, clearly your son is well above average and he might well improve his scores with preparation.

sorry meant who are NOW at LU, typo.

I think it’s so difficult to tell purely on CATs. DC had average of 129 consistently last few years and has ended up on waitlist for Emanuel. Seems like a tricky one to predict.

Thank you ncsurrey22. This is very reassuring and helpful, and good to know that he at least has the potential to apply to these schools.

Yes, I agree. I definitely won't rely on his scores alone and realise it is a much more complex process and also exam/interview dependent.

I guess at this stage I'm just trying to get guidance as to which schools we should consider. I want to avoid writing exams for schools that are not suitable/unrealistic etc. I'm dreading the whole experience tbh and want to minimise stress and manage our expectations in advance.

Fingers crossed for your DC and hope they get a place at school that they love!

There is a website which sells past papers specifically tailored to the sort of level each school expects. It will tell you that you need, say, roughly 85% on this paper to pass for X school. My DS did the 11+ this year and I'd say they're relatively accurate. Perhaps get some for St Johns (which has a reputation to be easier) and then work up to KCS?

Have you looked at Claremont Fan Court in Esher?

exampapersplus.co.uk/papers/eleven-plus/

@Carmenbeeeater I think you can try any school, I mean any school including the top ranking private and grammar.

The CAT test is only partially corelated to the exam results. There is a margin of testing error as much as 10 points. Also, some are coached to get 130+. Also this test only overlap partially with the actual exam. No creative writing (no test on creativity). No long worded math problems. Also, very often no spatial reasoning and NVR and actual 11+ tests.

I know it first hand. My son's CAT score is very good, and with ISEB somehow similar to CAT format, his ISEB score is (I guess) also very high. His written tests are less so, though still getting him to his desired school.

@Carmenbeeeater 125 is good enough to try any school. Ignore the myth here that you need 130 or even 135 for some schools. CAT does not equal IQ test. And IQ test does not equal IQ.

Hi @Carmenbeeeater, posting screenshots from the Atom report mentioned previously.

The report was called "CAT4 & Atom Learning SAS (Standard Age Scores)" and based on data Atom had for 2018 and 2019. I believe they don't publish it anymore, at least I couldn't find it in their website last time I looked.

The screenshots are - (a) brief description of the data, (b) London day school (boys) CAT scores, (c) London coed schools CAT

Probably stating the obvious, but worth bearing in mind that these are just averages. In any school there will be many DCs on either side of the average.

those numbers look plausible to me. if e.g. 132 is the average for Westminster it's not at all all difficult to believe that the worst score that got entry will be as low as, say, 122. almost certainly lower than 127.

Do you have the screengrab for the girls schools?

KGS over 130, Reeds/Epsom/St John 125, absolutely nonsense.

KCS and Hampton 130+: Even the average is not that high, not less to say the lower end. Also, KCS is noticeably more difficult to get into.

Having been through the process, just amazed at all the nonsenses.

+1 requesting girls’ schools list please
(with caveats noted)

@Ukmum2012 , @minipie , posting the girls' school data

Unfortunately no data for NLCS (probably because they have their own test?) and some of the London consortium schools (St Helen's Northwood, Northwood College etc)

We have a bit more personal experience with the girls data when DD was doing 11plus last year. We didn't have her CAT score (coming from state primary), but found the relative ranking of school selectivity pretty solid. Offer from a more selective school (according to the table) also meant meant offer from the less selective ones. Similarly rejections too.

That said, there probably isn't a huge difference in intake among schools that are close to each other, say NHEHS (average CAT 124) and Putney (average CAT 123). And there is of course an element of luck on the exam day :-(

Thanks everyone for sharing your insights and lived experiences -hugely helpful!

I think an important take away is that whilst my son might have reasonable CAT scores, it doesn't necessarily translate into good written exam outcomes. Knowing him, he will probably feel more confident/able with the ISEB and any written maths and reasoning exams, where as creative writing is likely to be considerably weaker which might then make the more competitive schools a challenge.

Lots to think about and a long road of prep ahead! Hopefully the open days will give a good feel too. Definitely looking for a good all round fit, rather than league table hierarchy alone.

Thank you! I will have a look and have also signed up for the CFC open day in March.

Thanks so much for taking the time to find these - much appreciated!

you do not need to be above 130 for KGS, especially not in y4 - maybe in your prep after years of coaching some who started out at 125 got 130+ on the CAT4 test. KGS is just Maths and English test, no reasoning, so one can pass with good preparation and tutoring. If you want to be at KGS with a CAT score below 125 is another matter, but you can certainly get in.

Also, look at A-level results and university destinations of KGS, it is all perfectly good but certainly implausible to assume all the children there are in the top 2% in terms of cognitive ability. Top 10% or top 5% very likely but not 130+.

DD got into KGS and while she had a score of 130+ in Year 6, it had been 126 in Year 4 (no experience of these tests at the time). So someone who scores 125-130 is certainly in the right range for KGS. 125+ you can try anything.

If helpful for people in the future, my dd had a cats average of 118 - and was offered places at queens gate and st James and waitlisted at nhehs and fhss (not sure if these two will turn into offers yet).