Help me parse "school shoes" vs. trainers

[ysette9]

As a new parent newly moved to the UK, I appreciate these forums as a source of advice. My oldest is starting Year 7 and we are parsing the uniform policy. I've never experienced a shoe policy other than "wear something you can safely run and play in", so figuring out what is considered school shoes is a bit mysterious.

I looked at the example images the school provided of acceptable footwear, and it is a collection of horrifyingly ugly and horrifyingly uncomfortable/disfiguring torture devices. I want their feet to be in foot-shaped, flexible, flat shoes to promote balance and proper development. I found these shoes that seem to fit the bill, but my spouse is concerned they look too "trainer-like". Neither of us can determine what a trainer is or is not. I know the decision is ultimately up to the judges at school, but I'd love your collective input to help educate me.

These are the shoes: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/187473076260 I blacked out the edges to make it more subtle. I'll see if I can figure a way to add an attachment to this post with the actual photos.

Unhelpfully I think this varies by school. Some schools don't allow Kicker style shoes and others do. Our DS school is relatively relaxed compared to other local secondary schools. It's very hard to know!

DC’s school is “no visible branding, can be polished all over”. But schools vary.

Start with telling us what the school wording says, and whether they supply photos of acceptable or unacceptable.

Black leather lace ups with the sole having a clear break after the heel rather than flat heel to toe.

The main rule/distinction I have seen (I am a secondary school teacher) is no large/visible brand logos and entirely black. If you meet both of these criteria even trainer-type shoes should be classed as school-appropriate. Also be careful about socks - we are stupidly picky that socks must be grey unless a girl is wearing them with a skirt when they must be white. Bizarre and ridiculous but they genuinely do pick up on it during the first few days of uniform checks 🤣

Agree with this. Your child's school website will almost certainly have a detailed explanation of what does and doesn't count. That, or advice from a parent at the same school. would be your best bet. Secondaries vary a lot in what counts!

What exactly does the uniform policy say? Usually if it just says shoes, no trainers then you just need to go to Clarks and choose a pair of black leather shoes from their kids section. If you go to the local branch the staff may know what is acceptable at that particular school

I am no longer able to edit the original message.

School policy wording is as follows:

"Plain black polishable school shoes. Laces and stitching must be black. No trainers, Velcro, boots or fabric shoes. No Vans or boots. No trimmings i.e., buckles, labels, tags or decorations. "

Shoe images included below.

Oh, with your edit, those shoes would not be acceptable. Just buy a pair as shown by the school information

Generally:

black
no other colours even logos or anything else
flat or as close to flat as makes no difference.

not fabric - so plain black shoes with a rubber sole and fabric upper would not count.

school shoes are usually leather but this is nit necessarily the case these days.

beyond that schools vary - some will allow black ankle boots or doc martens, others will not.

some will allow trainer type shoes but anything that is too obviously trainer is generally a no.

My oldest girl's school requires black socks with skirts. The younger girl's school requires white. 😳

Since I am trying to learn here, can you please explain what part is unacceptable? To my reading of the language printed in the policy I don't actually see where they are non-compliant.

I have bought the hobibear version of these for my dd Yr 8. She prefers a wide toe box since having a painful toe.
They are very trainers like but I think barefoot shoes should be permitted.

"Trainer" is a new word for me, so I'm still figuring out what exactly it is. Google tells me it is a shoe intended for athletic activity, which the shoes I bought are not. It does seem the line between a trainer and not-a-trainer is subjective, so if there are distinguishing characteristics I'd love to learn what they are.

I bought those also for my younger kids. The primary school's uniform policy seems quite a bit more relaxed, with more importance placed on having something suitable for running/climbing. My thinking was that vegan leather/pleather isn't polishable though, so I thought that wouldn't fit the secondary school policy.

One of the distinguishers to me is the sole. As I posted upthread normal shoes have a distinct end to the heel before moving forward to the front. The shoes you posted seem to be flat on the sole from back of heel to tip of toe.

So would that necessarily preclude all minimalist/barefoot shoes? I haven't worn anything with a distinguishable heel in over a decade, and my kids never have, so that wasn't on my radar as a feature of a normal shoe.

Have a look at https://barefootbrit.co.uk/category/school-shoes/
for various recommendations of barefoot friendly school shoes. We use have Be Greater girls school shoes but mine is much younger.

I would say the vivo’s you have might be judged as too trainer like.

Polishing shoes barely happens these days for high school.kids. A quick wipe over with a wet wipe and I figured the hibibear were good to go.
The ones you have picked will be fine i'm sure.....you can see they are not athletic or leisure footwear (trainers).

I got the bgreater Mary Jane's for younger dd but they only go to size 3 🙄

It is an oddly grey area. Those shoes may or may not be acceptable in our school as the laces make them trainer no like. I’ve replaced them in the past with these.

www.amazon.co.uk/CCSOFTIME-No-Tie-Trainers-Elastic-Stretchy/dp/B09HMT8D2L/ref=asc_df_B09HMT8D2L?mcid=f3cd073b49be338fbe0d3fb756a13f18&hvocijid=15885039356957752907-B09HMT8D2L-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15885039356957752907&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9213343&hvtargid=pla-2281435177578&psc=1&gad_source=1

Vegan leather would count as school shoes.

I cannot tell whether the shoes you have posted pictures of fit the policy as I can’t see the material.

that style of shoe if made from leather or a leather substitute and polished would count as a school shoe at my school.

the only slight question would be about the hexagonal logo which I think I can see embossed into it.

more generally:
the line between trainer and school shoes is quite complicated and different schools draw it in different places depending on (usually) how much of a pain their students are about breaking it.

historically school shoes are leather and are made in traditional styles and are black.

historically trainers are made of many different materials, leather sometimes included, and have tended to be white.

lots of manufacturers now make shoes that are more “in the middle”.

what the school wants is:
no logos. They don’t want kids being bullied about what they can afford/not afford to wear.

ideally shoes that stand up to a decent amount of wear and tear. The more trainery type shoes genuinely do not stand up to teens walking a couple of miles t school, playing football in the mud all lunchtime and then walking home and doing that five days a week.

i had my teens in black Doc maartens shoes as frankly they were the only ones that lasted.

Thank you for the link. That is a good resource to browse. There seem to be some shoes there that look trainer-like to my uneducated eye. I expect as several have said already, that it will come down to the individual school policy. I'll cross my fingers these will be judged acceptable. I'm also ordering something even plainer with a black sole as insurance.

Thank you to everyone for your input.

Can you honestly not just buy a pair of traditional black leather lace-ups like the ones below, sans angst and mewling. Once he's settled in have a recce about what everyone else wears.

www.startriteshoes.com/products/dylan-black-leather-boys-lace-up-school-shoes?_gl=11tgtm3i_upMQ.._gs*MQ..&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5c_FBhDJARIsAIcmHK__AFCZL5CT6PfMH-ux4P2vlPVfyOjGL3PEBUc8aHlSrQQTf3wpxu0aApsdEALw_wcB

Those shoes would be fine for our school, but I think some schools would insist on fully black, those look like they have a lighter coloured sole.
My daughter used to have black lace up hobibear ones for secondary school.

Apart from the fact that they are actually hideous and most 11 year olds wouldn’t want to be seen dead in them, they have a logo embossed on the back of them. Also, they’re well worn. If you’re concerned about your child’s feet, please don’t buy then second hand shoes.