Grammar and primary schools

[PK1908]

Hi, this is my first post here- so apologies if I am doing anything wrong.
I am currently looking to buy a house in an area which has grammar school for both boys and girls( I have one son and one daughter), and good primary school for boys, good non selective secondary school, and commutable from london , as both me and my husband are working( too many criteria- I know!!!).
We had finalised Amersham/little Chalfont area and actively looking around there.
Some friends suggested Worcester park- as it can be in catchment of both Tiffin’s girls and nonsuch grammar. I started searching but so confused- as KT4 can be in Sutton or Kingston. How does it work- which non selective schools can I apply for in that case. Many schools show distance criteria, but will council be considered too. Eg. If the postcode lies in Sutton, though distance is less for a school in Kingston, will they be considered?
If not, then is it better to get house in Kingston or Sutton?
Also, what about primary schools.
And lastly- any thoughts on Amersham/little Chalfont vs Worcester park?
sorry for such a long post and queries- ChatGPT failed me so I turned to this trusted forum.

TIA

All I can say is Tiffin is insanely competitive to get in. People tutor their kids for years for the test. I certainly wouldn’t make any house move at this stage on the assumption of going there.

OP I would ask why you want to live in a grammar area? Are your DC going to be bright enough to get into the grammar?

Because if not, then they will be in a secondary modern by any other name – a school where the brightest have been creamed off (by the grammar). Obviously it depends what % go to the grammar; but is that something you want for your DC?

Many people who like the idea of a grammar area like it bc they think their kids will go to the grammar. But most will not.

You ask about non-selective schools – if I were you I would move to an area with excellent comprehensive secondary options. And live really near the one you like. There are plenty of places in the outer London area, or in London itself (depending on house budget ofc) that fit that bill.

Thanks for responding- this really helps.

Thanks for the detailed response. yeah we were not that fussy about grammar school, and hence got the current house which does not have any grammar school. But we are not liking this area, so planning to move anyways. My daughter is quite academic and doing really well for her age, hence wanted to give her the opportunity atleast to try. Very aware that she might not clear it, so looking for good non selective schools too.

Sutton area on paper meets your need. The areas between Kingston and Sutton which are in catchment for both sets of grammars don’t generally have access to the best state schools. There are lots of excellent schools in Sutton - grammar and non grammar.

@PK1908 How old are DC? I know the Bucks area you are suggesting well. The big problem you will have is vacancies in the primary schools you might wish to target. You need to look in a wider area around the stations on the Chiltern Line.

There are 13 grammars in Bucks. All publish their catchment areas and, in my view, it’s foolish to just look at the 2 Amersham grammars. There’s quite a few others on railway lines into London.

The Bucks schools are totally different to Tiffin. Less competitive to get into. Much better to be in Bucks. There are quite a few secondary non grammars that are way better than many comprehensives elsewhere! Look at Ofsted and results! So don’t just look at Amersham and Little Chalfont.

Sutton / Wallington is best of you are looking for grammars. But the entrance process is v competitive (many more applicants than places) and a lot of people tutor.

You need to look at the admissions pages on the schools' websites. They have to publish this information. It's not secret.

This will tell you about the dates/style of exams, catchment areas, pupil premium places etc.

This also applies to the non grammar schools. You need to find out the usual distances kids get in from, dates for open days etc.

My daughter is at Nonsuch and the tutoring carries on even once they get in. My daughter's friends find it astonishing that she doesn't have a tutor or tutors (some have one for each A level subject).

All the grammars mentioned are way more competitive than the Bucks ones though. Completely different.

If you don't have a genius children and only very able then consider grammar counties rather than Tiffin schools.

For girls you would need to live very very close to the school to give your daughter the most of chance

There are grammar schools that have no catchment. Try to get in and if your kid does then you move into area.
The problem Kingston Is that if you move in, and your child will not get in to Tiffins ( insanely competitive, South Asian kids are majority in the school- competing with e.g. brill Indians is hard as some families hothouse kids from early age) then you have a choice of fantastic Catholic schools if you are a Catholic... Or if you live in a very heart of Kingston town ( tiny catchment) you get to Kingston Academy which is ok. All other - Hollyfield, Coombs, Chessington, Toolworth etc are honestly not special in any form or shape to say the least

Apart from that if your kid is very capable she/he will be in top sets of any state school. And they do Further Maths etc.

If I were you I would move to area with very good comprehensives and apply to grammars that have no catchment.

I have friends in WP & don't live far. KT4 is cross borough as you say I believe. The schools are very good however as pp said extremely competitive.

You would get into Tiffin boys or girls from WP. The Sutton grammars offer priority to some postcodes which includes KT4.

WP has at least one excellent primary school I know of near the high street.

I have a friend in WP Sutton bit with one dc in grammar & another in a state comp that she is very pleased with, Glen something which has places for a bit of WP. Another friend is in the Kingston bit & has dc in a very good Catholic. Another friend is in Sutton & has dc in Harris which I think is the only option there that is considered good.

I know someone who works at The Kingston Academy & who has dc there who raves about it.

@Thesoundofmusic23

What are the excellent non grammar's in Sutton?

To give you an idea of competitiveness OP, I know 4 dc in my child's school who didn't get in to Tiffin or Sutton grammars but got subsidised places at Whitgift, Dulwich College etc. My dd got exceeding in their yr 6 SATs in everything but writing and I didn't even bother trying for grammars.

Honestly. I would think twice about moving to a grammar area. I live near to two grammar areas so DC1 had 11+ tutoring and took the two 11+ tests ..... and failed both. They should have passed. They are incredibly academic and got 4xAstar at A Level. Luckily the local comp was good and DC1 was very happy there.

@dizzydizzydizzy Are you mistaking a grammar “area” for a grammar county? They are not the same. I doubt many get 4 A star at the standard secondary schools in Bucks for example. No FM available for start. Many parents tutor and waste their money because dc take too long to answer the questions. When it get to 3/4 favourite subjects over 2 years it’s very different. Many dc not at grammars are bright when there’s only 2 grammars available with huge catchments that are super selective. 13 grammars in Bucks. It’s different.

I’m not really sure what you mean but one of the grammar areas I was referring to is a county.

My point was that even with an exceptionally bright and motivated child and tutoring, your child will not necessarily get into a grammar.

I think @TizerorFizz was saying the London grammar's are a completely different beast vs counties with grammar schools. But I don't know other areas.

@dizzydizzydizzy They probably will in Bucks though. There’s NO comps here. There’s never a guarantee due to timing and technique. I’ve never seen A level results at the non grammars with 4 A stars. I’ve seen 3 but one subject was FM that wasn’t taught at the school. The dc don’t take 4. It’s not impossible but rare and very bright dc who have matured late transfer in the 6th form to the grammars.

@bldy i hear good things about many schools in Sutton - Harris, Glenthorne, st Philomenas and lots of parents happy at carshaton and Cheam as well as Greenshaw. Lots of choice - will depend on location, gender of child and what you are looking for looking for but a good pool to start with and that’s assuming you don’t get or want the grammars.

@Thesoundofmusic23 that's it Glenthorne which is the one I know someone at who lives in Worcester Park. I also remember her saying she could get into Cheam too. I knew people when I was younger who went to St Phil's but thought it had gone down a bit, catholic schools tend to have wider catchments though anyway. Also know someone happy at Harris.

Exactly. Especially that Tiffin boys maybe has talented kids but apart from that it is not that good school ( unlike Tiffin girls btw)

Could you please tell more about why Tiffin boys is not that good? Considering it for my son.