Leaving private school for state 6th form - experiences?

[WomensRightsRenegade]

I did ask this once before but it was quite a while ago now so I was just wondering if this was something more people were doing/ thinking about doing?

Thanks to the VAT increase my son had his bursary halved (from 100pc) and it looks like it’s about to be reduced further or removed. I guess they have no need to rush confirmation seeing as they will know parents will do almost anything to avoid moving schools for year 11. It’s all been quite nasty really. Seeing behind the gloss and the taglines about how they care for the boys like family has been illuminating.

Anyhow DS is utterly heartbroken at having to leave when he is so happy. He is very talented musically and was so looking forward to continuing in the ensembles and taking Music A level there. It’s going to be an agonising last year as he can’t even let anyone know he’s leaving until April. No local sixth forms to us even offer Music A level and the nearest college is a lottery system.

Are other people facing having to remove kids against the child’s will? I am so worried he will always think we could have found a way, even though he’s said nothing to us except that he understands the situation totally. Academically I’m sure he’ll be fine if he works hard, but socially and musically it feels like it could be a very abrupt end. If I could go back in time I would never EVER have accepted the bursary. This was always the risk.

Jazz Junior Conservatoire is what you want. The individual instrument reachers are usually jazz specialists (rather than ‘classical players who teach a bit of jazz’) and it will be full of ‘his people’. Students tend to join a bit later than on the classical course, so being that bit older to start shouldn’t be an issue.

Paper grades will matter a LOT less than audition - some jazzers never do grades at all - and in London you have a choice so can apply to several (they do slightly adjust entry to get a reasonably balanced list of instruments).

I expect there will be regional-type big bands as well as the national ones, so again he should look at those.

In music, yes, it is fun to get the glory of being the ‘top’ players in the ‘top’ school bands, but for progression you actually want to join the best band that will take you, in which you can be ‘the worst player but learning from the best’. Thus may be just what he needs.

Tonnmeister is definitely a music tech course, for those aiming for that world. Good, highly competitive, totally accessible from a state school (a younger friend of my musician son has been accepted) but very narrow in scope and intent.

There is a spectrum of how universities look at the private/state education of applicants.

In the most publicised examples usually picked up by the newspapers, they report on the split for A levels only ie at point of application - these are the % that Oxbridge report for example. Possibly universities are influenced by the positive/negative PR around the publication of these specific figures and therefore these are the figures that would influence their offer strategy.

When it comes to making contextualised offers or ranking applicants on GCSE results then they may apply a weighting to the applicants results relative to the typical performance of the school they attended for GCSEs (there are various formulas for this!), as well as other economic criteria. This won’t just mean private versus state but highly selective schools with high results versus comprehensives with a broad intake.

In addition, universities may discriminate between state/private for special open days, summer schools, master classes, competitions, work experience or other outreach activities such as mentoring or admissions test courses. This discrimination may mean only state school applicants can apply or there may be more granular eligibility criteria such as free school meals or social deprivation measures, or your example of being 100% state school educated.

This has given me a lot of food for thought, thank you! DS will definitely try auditioning for Junior Jazz at the Royal Academy and Guildhall but it’s daunting as they only need 1 or 2 drummers, and I’ve heard most auditionees have been having specialist jazz music tuition for years. DS has had the privileged opportunity to play a lot at his current school but we can’t afford jazz lessons, or even 1:1 lessons anymore post grade 8.

For Guildhall he would definitely need help to prepare the audition pieces. So we’ll see.

As for Tonmeister, that’s my worry. I don’t think DS is the audio tech type. But then he’s not really the engineer type either, and confused about where a Physics degree (his favourite subject) might take him

Thank you for this reply - nothing has changed except a 2pc pay rise last year!

Didn't you notice that little VAT change? you know, tens of thousands of parents have to move their kids from private to state because of it. And other tens of thousands won't even attempt to start private anymore. Did your school pass full VAT on? if not, how do you think they manage? How is your bursary paid for? from donations by other parents I suspect? or by charging those full paying parents a bit extra to support you? are you surprised they are finding this too much now?

Just out of curiosity - whom did you vote for last year?

There are plenty of threads about VAT-shall we keep this one relevant to the OP’s situation?

Outer London. Sixth forms, DC travels for Kings Maths School and Harris Westminster where it is selective and free. Check travel schedule because it not mins of travel time but options to get there by train, tube, bus which makes it viable.

The other point to note is that you can apply to as many Sixth Forms as you want to! So the whole of London is your oyster. The superselective grammars for boys (some mixed) in an around London go on score mainly, but how they score differs. So one will do 8 or 9 GCSEs and just add up the points and for that one you will want all 9s, another prioritises Maths then English score etc. You have to just work out their exact admissions criteria and apply to a range within commuting distance. Thousands and thousands of children across London do this every year! A lot of girls grammars further out take boys in the Sixth Form too and it can be a more gentle atmosphere.

DD has friends from high level orchestras moving state due to VAT. There are a lot of them this year so nothing to worry about. They are all very musical and very academic so they can take their pick, like your son.

This is such a helpful response, thanks!

If you approached it from something like "it was great to have a full subsidy for several years but they can't do this anymore and I have an issue" my view would be different. But no, it's greedy bustards don't want to give me 30k pa anymore, only 15k and nothing's changed for them. It's a very typical attitude.

To add to some posts above - please bear in mind that Harris Westminster mentioned here is heavily supported by Westminster school. Harris openly put private school pupils to the very bottom of their list of candidates. Oh irony.

And my point stands - if you voted this government than you should've planned for this outcome.

You are taking a lot of bitterness out on me and I’m not sure why. You have no fucking clue who I voted for, and it hardly would have changed the outcome anyway seeing as they have a majority at present of around 140.

This is a personal story about my son. I’m grateful most people were kind enough to reply kindly and constructively, without frothing at the mouth. He wasn’t taking from anyone else - he was found to be entitled to one of the full bursaries the school OFFERS, and his entitlement hasn’t changed. So to pull or even halve the bursary for no conceivable reason is both inexplicable and a huge shock.

I’m sorry you are incapable of empathising with that. But console yourself with the fact that a poor kid won’t be polluting the private school bubble for much longer. You win.

How is your bursary paid for? from donations by other parents I suspect? or by charging those full paying parents a bit extra to support you?

I have never seen bursaries paid by donation from other parents or school fees. Many private schools have wealthy foundations which fund the bursaries, additionally they call on ex alumni, institutions and fundraising events.

It isn't explicable though, it's called "cutting their cloth" like government told the schools to do. This is what it looks like ie reducing/ending bursaries. It was always going impact lower income families the most, the court acknowledged this in the verdict.

There are plenty of threads you can take this to. This one is about the OP’s current situation.

than you haven't seen much. A lot of secondaries have very heavy donation campaign for parents to support bursaries. Yes, alumni are amongst benefactors, but those "wealthy foundations" are supported by parents. Tope tier schools in particular are very aggressive in encouraging parents to set up direct debits for their bursary funds.

And OP is still talking about "no conceivable reason".
The reason is so obvious.

You've always been a staunch supporter of VAT policy and argued that causalities like OP are worth it.

Please don't pretend to be empathetic here.

Just to point out that if OP's son is successful in securing a place in a great state six form (and competition will be fierce this year), then down the line another kid from poorer background will be pushed out.

This is exactly what you supported @CurlewKate

Bollocks. It's the reverse. The famous public schools like Eton et al have endowment but they make up 1% of independent schools.
At the majority of independent schools, the bursaries/scholarshipf come out of surplus from fees that other parents pay. That's why they are not-for-profit organisations, any surplus is reinvested to meet charitable aims.

But console yourself with the fact that a poor kid won’t be polluting the private school bubble for much longer.

This shows the entire attitude. Happy to take but hate the givers if the gift is not as big as wanted. People like this always vote Labour. Or now Reform.

Btw - my DC aren't in private. They secured the place in one of top three public schools. Went to grammar instead. Precisely because of VAT.

@nearlylovemyusername

Some secondaries may have parental donation campaigns, I’m simply saying the ones I have been involved with (top tier) have not.

Either way, they have very, very wealthy parents who can more than afford to donate if they wish to.

The OP actually flagged the impact of the VAT increase in her first post.

Dropping a bursary for a student in Year 10, going into Year 11 is pretty bad though! It is literally the only year when the parent is trapped.
A lot of private schools have staff discounts of 50 plus percent sometimes up to 100 per cent. The staff on the 50% discounts are also being screwed by VAT on their 50% and I reckon a lot of private schools will aim to retain staff above bursary students. And the OP is OK to be peeved. Not about Sixth Form transition, but about Year 11. That is bang out of order!

A ton of kids in London private schools who are on bursaries or big scholarships (excepting the staff discounts) are also the kids who would have gotten into the best grammars or aptitude comps at 11 plus. So they are perfectly entitled to be really annoyed. Perhaps the annoyance should be at both the schools and Labour though.

Of course the elite schools have "very, very wealthy parents who can more than afford to donate if they wish to" BUT many of the other 99% of independent schools don't and the court identified this in the verdict. 25% of parents using independent schools are from lower income households.

Yes, I am supportive of VAT. That doesn’t mean that I am not willing to try to help people like the OP finding a new school for her son. And incidentally, a school that completely bins off one of the very few full-bursary pupils whatever the circumstances is morally questionable, to say the least.

“Btw - my DC aren't in private. They secured the place in one of top three public schools. Went to grammar instead. Precisely because of VAT.”

@nearlylovemyusername - sounds like you did the right thing if they are going to be assessing all scholarships and bursaries annually! Who wants that kind of stress! It is ridiculous. Sometimes kids just have an off teen year. Nobody can kick you out of grammar until at least Sixth Form (barring severe disciplinary issues).

"Morally questionable" when UK is now only country in the world to tax education 🤔 I think you've aimed that statement at the wrong people! We are now ideologically behind Nigeria as they've just reversed the taxation on school fees.

Well, that's great. OP should be very grateful to you @CurlewKate .

And she might continue hating those private school bubbles who supported her son for several years.

Sorry @WomensRightsRenegadeThere goes your thread. I hope you find a solution.