PGCE - Secondary

[RachCCE]

Hey Guys,

Bit of background, I'm 20 years industry experienced in mid to senior level business management. Jobs include:operations, projects, marketing etc. I did a degree later in life and graduated in 2022 in Business, Management & Leadership. Opportunity has arisen to do secondary PGCE in Business at a local MAT.

I'm currently working (following a year off mat leave) at a private sector SME as contracts and ops manager. I choose my own hours but the phone doesn't stop, as is the private sector. Clients will contact me anytime from 7am to 8pm. Most of the "work" can be done on the phone/laptop from anywhere but it is a constant contactable situation.

Prior to mat leave i worked at the local college in student recruitment, purely for the term time hours (and pension). Just done my first school holiday, two weeks, three kids (15,9,1) and not having term time has been HARD.

I'm not naive that teaching won't be hard work BUT with significant senior level jobs, sometimes 60 hours a week and the requirement to be almost constantly contactable I think I will manage.

Anyone out there who has come from industry, LATER IN LIFE, to go into secondary teaching? I'm looking for reasonable discussion around workload.

I don't need to hear you work from home and it's hell etc.... I'm well practised at long working hours, and effective time management. If anything I'm looking for the positive contributors to give me some real world pros and cons.

Thank you :)

You may be better off asking for this to be moved to The Staffroom topic which is specifically for teachers.

Do you like teenagers en masse?

I haven’t done that but I am a secondary school teacher…

…and on its day, it’s still the best job in the world.

I love it, and would never say don’t go for it. I would say that it’s a really hard job to do if you don’t really want to do it, but are just doing it for the holidays etc.

I did it and it’s been an amazing nice for me. I’m just coming to the end of four years in, and although it’s never been easy per se, it is definitely manageable for somebody with your skills and experience (similar to mine). You just need to be a multi tasker and adept at having a million different plates spinning at once! I’d go for it in your shoes. I love working with young people.

Sounds like workload won't be an issue so park that.

Having mentored and career change students, the biggest issue is usually behaviour and accepting feedback to improve. Can you cope with a room of teens being rude and remain calm? Can you cope with constant feedback and improving yourself?

The ages of your children are very spread. You'll never be able to go to anything at your children's school. Do you have cast iron childcare?

I'm a secondary school teacher and yes, you do have the measure of how much time it takes up. However the money probably isn't consummate with the hours worked and at times it REALLY bothers me how kids speak to adults, you will be amazed at the lack of respect. I had a student say disdainfully "YOU have a degree in (subject) ?" like he couldn't believe it.

Not just the holidays, although huge bonus! I have worked with PRU teens on a voluntary basis since I was 18 on and off. During my time at college I learned my happy place was when I was with the kids, talking to them etc. It's definitely the "dream" to inspire young minds, I know its a cliche ...

Definitely not in it for the money, I know its low hourly rate when worked out. But I can finally afford to take the pay cut if that makes sense. Other half can support the drop in salary so very lucky in that sense.

Solid childcare, have needed it for the last 15 years, spending alot of time working in London (staying a few days at a time). Being yorkshire based the childcare has needed to be spot on due to my work travel.

Happy to receive feedback, on a constant self improvement journey and always looking and seeking ways to improve. Very very optimistic and positive in general so I find feedback useful rather than a criticism.

Kids trash talking will be my biggest learning point, I've had some experience at college but have very very well disciplined children at home and I feel my style of discipline is perfectly suited to teenagers....I know this probably sounds naive to everyone!

This is just the positive response I needed, I've really really looked forward to it yet every time I tell someone in my life I get a funny face and a groan!

Oh ill try do that thank-you, very novice mumsnet user!

I do like teenagers en masse, and my subject is so subjective and thought provoking I feel like I can really get them interested and involved.

I know teachers are reading and thinking.... eye roll haha. But genuinely when I was at uni as a mature student even then I felt student engagement could be SO much better and I feel up for the challenge.

On a good day, I love teaching and being with teenagers. But although every teacher wants to change the world, please be aware it isn't as simple as "I'll be so wonderful and super engaging, the kids will just fall into line". It doesn't work like that honestly.

I know, I know. I'm riding on the dream cliche haha. But better have that attitude i guess?? What's the worst part of the job for you?

The worst part is behaviour and government metrics meaning no meaningful consequences. It's difficult to get support for students who need it due to SEND or pastoral concerns. It's almost impossible to exclude children and not the money to support them properly in school. The impact they have on the rest of the school community is disproportionate.

Business is quite a niche subject to teach.

so issues might be:
many schools combine it in with another subject (geography,maths, similar). So you could end up either teaching two subjects in one school (tricky) or teaching business across two or more physical schools.

my school has tried both models and the teacher who worked across two physical schools (same mat) found it quite difficult.

The worst is the apathy for learning and lack of respect from students (and parents sometimes too). I've thought about leaving teaching many times thinking, I'm a highly skilled professional and I'm tired of being spoken to like dirt by 13 year olds!

This is nice to hear confirmed, the MAT have been really up front about this, they said maths for sure and probably R.E.

This is why I don't want to pass up the opportunity I've been looking for a business specific PGCE since I graduated

Maths and RE are wildly different to teach! I'd try to get one or the other alongside Business. (Maths specialist here).

Teaching maths is a different ballgame to many other subjects, especially in terms of the specific pedagogy required. I'd try to up skill yourself in this area to be truly good at teaching maths.

My middle child in SEN, AuDHD and PDA, he's been at home with me throughout mat leave. I have always found his disruption to other students unfair on them and work hugely on his respect for others when in a learning environment. I know this isn't always possible for all SEN children. The drastic unfunding is a worry I've read lots about resources coming from teachers pockets.

I'm also a bit of an advocate for building on their strengths which I know won't help me and I'll have to adapt or mask my mindset in that area. For example my SEN child will be on a building site as soon as he's able, formal education would never be my chosen route for him.

This has been a worry, but maths was a strong subject for me, it's good advice to start swotting up for sure!

My maths has been limited to budgets and P&L sheets over the last 20 years!

Yes this is what I hear the most. I'm quite thick skinned but I'm sure it becomes draining. It just wouldn't be allowed to happen in a professional environment would it

I retrained from similar business career aged 53 /pgce MFL but have also taught English, Drama and PE and an MFL I didn’t even have a GCSE in myself. Did lots of daily supply for two years after the PGCE which I really enjoyed as learned massively what different schools are like and behaviour management skills /I definitely learned more through supply than the very mediocre stuff taught on PGVE course. You will probably find the standard of teaching on the PGCE very amateurish as the course leaders are people who haven’t actually taught themselves for years or who hit out asap, but just grit your teeth and get through it.
During my supply time I was offered jobs at different schools, but finally took one on a local indie. Loved the classroom stuff and lesson prep -you will find the prep quite easy after your current job. Marking is boring but expected -just find a method efficient for you. The downside is tedious meetings and so-called CPD, but you will find likeminded colleagues.
I only left because I want more time to do sports etc while still active. But I do miss the kids -they made me laugh every day.
In the indie sectors pay is negotiable so you can leverage your experience. Pension was the TPS which is still
quite good, but a lot of schools are now moving away from that so check the pension arrangements before accepting s job.
Those who have said that teaching more than one subject at a time is difficult are not aware of the the flexibility you will be used up in your current career -I enjoyed teaching across different faculties because I relished the variety and can manage the differing work streams.
Go for it! 😀

That's exactly what I thought about teaching other subjects. It will give me the variety I crave. Also I know the training will be a drag, three years at uni was LONG in a subject I could teach to my tutors but I got through it with purpose and I'm sure I can knuckle down for one year if this.

The supply route is good to hear about as I said earlier my income is not HUGELY important so I can afford the risk of not getting work. And again the variety of behaviour/ethis etc will help me so much .

Thanks for your response, it's really helpful to read something from someone with similar experiences

Hmm.

i was a maths teacher for twenty years. What’s your highest qualification in maths?

maths teaching has changed quite significantly since you were at school. If you don’t have a particularly high qualification you are very likely to be given year 7 groups (which are often mixed ability) or very low attaining groups which can have significant behaviour problems.

you are going to want to upskill pretty quickly if you have a lot of maths on your timetable. Your local maths hub will probably have courses.

https://www.ncetm.org.uk/maths-hubs/

That's good advice, I will certainly look at a course. Maths is always useful. I have GCSE and A Level, A and B respectively. I hope it's not too heavy on the baths side. Every school in the trust has business at least at GCSE but some at A Level too. I'm hoping it's a one off maths lesson!

A one off maths lesson would be worse to be honest. You're better off having a decent amount of it to really get into it. Plus it will mean you have more strings to your bow when you qualify.
What's the job market like near you? Maths teachers are gold dust, business teachers less so. If you offer both you'd be more popular.

I think you sound like you're going into it for the right reasons. Have you got any opportunity to get into schools and shadow for a few days?