PGCE - Secondary

[RachCCE]

Hey Guys,

Bit of background, I'm 20 years industry experienced in mid to senior level business management. Jobs include:operations, projects, marketing etc. I did a degree later in life and graduated in 2022 in Business, Management & Leadership. Opportunity has arisen to do secondary PGCE in Business at a local MAT.

I'm currently working (following a year off mat leave) at a private sector SME as contracts and ops manager. I choose my own hours but the phone doesn't stop, as is the private sector. Clients will contact me anytime from 7am to 8pm. Most of the "work" can be done on the phone/laptop from anywhere but it is a constant contactable situation.

Prior to mat leave i worked at the local college in student recruitment, purely for the term time hours (and pension). Just done my first school holiday, two weeks, three kids (15,9,1) and not having term time has been HARD.

I'm not naive that teaching won't be hard work BUT with significant senior level jobs, sometimes 60 hours a week and the requirement to be almost constantly contactable I think I will manage.

Anyone out there who has come from industry, LATER IN LIFE, to go into secondary teaching? I'm looking for reasonable discussion around workload.

I don't need to hear you work from home and it's hell etc.... I'm well practised at long working hours, and effective time management. If anything I'm looking for the positive contributors to give me some real world pros and cons.

Thank you :)

Can I just become a maths teacher without a Maths degree? And limited knowledge?

I mean business is my absolute passion, teaching young minds to be critical thinkers and develop entrepreneurial skill set is just the dream.

I think i would tire of maths! But happy to multiskill for sure, especially to stay competitive in the job market.

No opportunity to shadow currently, but have my PGCE induction with the MAT on June 30th and will ask then if any of the local schools will take me a day a week maybe.

I'm hoping for the closest school to me (11 minute drive, only one set of traffic lights!) So would be nice to get in there as a volunteer pre September in the hope that swings my placement maybe!

Technically no you can’t become a maths teacher without at least a numerate degree.

However what you can do is do a business pgce and upskill by doing courses with the maths hub or the ou used to offer some as cpd,

you are then a business teacher with a second subject of maths.

schools generally won’t let you teach a level or the top levels of GCSEs, but if you think that in primary the vast majority of teachers don’t have a maths degree and so up until year 6 most kids are taught maths by a non specialist.

many schools are very very short of maths teachers (and science teachers these days) and it’s common now for year 7 to be taught in mixed ability groups much like primary except they move around the school. So many schools use non specialists (sometimes ex primary teachers, sometimes PE or humanities or whoever they have) to teach year 7.

This is great knowledge to have, I'll absolutely get a course under my belt pre September. Thank you

My daughter is coming to the end of her PGCE and it’s been a tough, but enjoyable year. She did some work experience in a local secondary school before applying, following working in marketing. I would say go for it and if you can teach IT as well as Business, you will be very sort after. Teachers now are often expected to teach more than one subject.

I have considered computing, I spent 7 years as a scrum master in a dev team and it's amazing what you pick up. Definitely going to follow advice and pick up some courses for a second subject!

Technically no you can’t become a maths teacher without at least a numerate degree.

You can - my last trainee had a degree in a subject not even adjacent. No maths a level either.

He was woefully inadequate and I had to ask/tell him to leave, but my understanding is that his training provider found him somewhere more accommodating.

It's an appalling state of affairs.

Go for it! We need passionate, hard working, organised and knowledgeable teachers. Your previous experience means you’ll cope with the workload and deadlines etc. Don’t worry about the students - it’s usually the adults in schools that cause the most problems.
Rather than offer a second subject I think you should make the most of your business knowledge eg offer to introduce A level business if it’s not on the curriculum or even better BTEC business level 3. Could you teach A level economics?
Teaching is an amazing career and highs definitely outweigh the lows. A sense of humour, thick skin and a passion for learning really help.

I feel like this is exactly the type of message I will write in a year or two! I find adults in the workplace as a whole can be a big ball of negativity, but I love what I do and my positive bubble stays bubbly ha! I would absolutely prefer to stay on the business stuff, it's my passion and it's what I'm good at, and I've so much real world stuff to inspire them with.

I find it so unfair that trainees are placed somewhere they cannot thrive. I am pretty intelligent and tend to be able to lend my hand to most things but teaching maths would never be a first choice for me!

He chose it for the massive bursary. And there's more incentive for training providers to fill places than to ensure appropriate qualifications.

It's appalling.

Can you give any advice from your mentoring point of view... what are mentors looking for from their trainees?

Listen to what we tell you. It's not our first rodeo.
Do what we tell you. Ditto.
Watch as many people as you can to find your style.
Turn up ... in every way.
Don't play people off against each other.
If you fuck up, tell me before the head does.
Remember that what you do changes someone's life every day. So you'd better make it a good change.

It's the best and most important job there is. If you don't believe that, it's not for you.

my subject is so subjective and thought provoking I feel like I can really get them interested and involved.

You should have a look at the exam curriculum as well as the schools curriculum and find out what that involves and what and how the school wants you to teach it.

What exam boards want are a big part of getting the grades which in the end is what the school is after. Will you have one GCSE class and one Btec class. Does the content support each other and how different is it.

You will end up teaching another subject, what will it be? What support will you get?
What are the requirements for it?
It could be something completely different from business studies.

I'm a great student, having led teams for a couple of decades I make sure I listen first time every time. I know how annoying it is to be on the other side!

This response has given me a little spark, I have been down trodden by the negativity around teaching for a while, but I absolutely cannot wait to be someone who (tries) to make a difference!

I imagine all these questions will be answered once I start the SCITT. All questions I'll put on my list, thank you!

So nice to read a positive thread about secondary school teaching. Too often these threads are filled with negativity. It’s hard but so are lots of other jobs!

Inspired by @MrsHamlet post: I watch this whenever I feel like quitting;
t

I'm 5 years into science teaching having career changed. I still love it and also mentor PGCE students. The most frustrating PGCEs are the ones who don't take feedback on board. What MrsHamlet said upthread is spot on.

The right school makes a huge difference. Definitely try to shadow for a bit before committing. I'm very happy in my career now, it's exhausting but also mostly rewarding and it challenges my brain in a great way every day.

Well we desperately need enthusiastc, new blood into the teaching profession, so good luck to you!
If you like hard work, not too fussed about money and can stick up for yourself, you'll be fine.

It sounds like you will be a great teacher. And if you don’t like it, you can always leave. We have Business and Economics at my school, so the department teaches both subjects.

As others have pointed out, a big (and somewhat surprising downside) is teaching is not very family friendly e.g. difficult to be off with sick children; hard to attend events; last minute changes to the calendar (school dependent as this shouldn’t really happen).

You will have to teach teenagers with AuDHD, ADHD, PDA alongside NT teenagers, and they will be expected to get good grades.

It is draining …

Not much specific to add that hasn't already been said, but you sound very convincing, OP! I've been a teacher for 30 years and to be honest I usually join the chorus of 'Hell no, don't do it!' responses on threads like this. But your attitude and experience (of teenagers, including challenging ones) makes you sound very different from the average poster who's decided they fancy being a teacher. I'd say go for it.

OP have you looked at business GCSE specifications, observed any business lessons and/or looked at the exam papers?

Your description of what business is as a subject doesn't really match up with my undrestanding of what it is in a classroom or how it is taught- subjective , for example. It's a very very popular GCSE - hugely so in my schools. It is also the number one dropped subject at my school because it isn't what the kids expect it to be.

I wouldn't want you to go into teaching and lose your love of your subject- the thing that you are most passionate about, it seems to me. This way lies frustration and disillusionment. The rote learning, exam treadmill, teaching only wat you need to with no extra 'just because' stuff is real.

I started teaching a subject I love. I now flatly refuse to teach it because of what it became. Luckily I have been able to diversify and now teach a subject where I have more autonomy.

Go for it op! I find lots of teachers who come into it having worked previously in other industries, don’t complain that often about hours worked. I’ve been teaching for twenty years and worked before that. I still love teaching and teenagers are just hilarious. Yes they can be rude etc but the majority of them aren’t. And even the rude ones will mostly apologise when they calm down. I find how you treat them is generally how they treat you. One thing I struggled with when I started was how low in academic ability the majority of my students were. I don’t mean that unkindly. I mean that I was a top set student and went to uni, so was always surrounded by similarly academically able people. It was a massive shock to me how much so many of my students struggled with reading for example. And just the lack of general knowledge about stuff.
what’s the worst that could happen? You do your pgce and think ‘actually it’s not for me’. What’s the best that could happen? You do your pgce, love it, have found a new passion and help thousands of young people!