Languages and Dyslexia

[lotsofthingstolearn]

DS aged 12 coming to the end of year 7.

Selective state Grammar school, who have been superb thus far regarding DS dyslexia. But, caveat here is that we're new to the secondary school thing our barometer is that their support was a marked difference from primary school who did little.

The curriculum at school is he has to study Latin, French and German- we've always said go along with it and we know he will find it challenging. He hates it and even more so when he's asked to resit tests as he scores below 50%

End of year exams have been interesting and for all languages he's scored below 7%. But, in his other subjects eg History (77%), Biology (55%) English (55%) he's scored ok. Except his maths (he scored greater depth in SATs) he has got 20% but has said he forgets the process of what he's got to do to get the answer in the more complicated sums

I want to make the case that spending time on languages is pointless, he won't want to do them at GCSE and is it not better he spends time on overlearning other subjects so it goes into his long term memory easier?

Someone has said this may be problematic as languages feature in factor 8 scoring?

Has anyone done anything and or can any teachers offer advice of what I should do

Im in my 60's and dyslexia wasnt known about when I was at school and I struggled and failed with French

I have been diagnosed since

I was also diagnosed recently with APD which explains why even now I struggle with the simplistic foreign language phrases

It's ludicrous making a dyslexic child do three foreign languages. It sounds like your D'S needs more support with maths which is far more important.

It sounds like he is bright if he is at grammar school, so you need to ask the school what they can do to support him.

I have said same re languages and joked with him as long as he can order a ham sandwich and hot chocolate that's all he needs. But, seeing the marks has jarred and also, the maths which is really important shows there is something a miss. He's really bright and all we want is for him to reach his potential.

So, I wanted to make proposal to school to get them to consider an alternative. There are not many children with dyslexia in school so I need to be measured, accurate and realistic in what can be expected.

But a teacher friend has said highly unlikely will they de-timetable him for languages as the factor 8 score is the main driver in the success metrics of schools (DO NOT get me on blooming metrics, but it is what it is)

The important information you need is what is he expected to take for his GCSEs. If one language is compulsory then I would argue with the school that he should be allowed to choose this now and be given extra help with literacy during the freed up time. There probably is no capacity for actual teaching but if they have a Lexia programme, or something similar, that would be ideal. Are they still following the EBacc? If so, he’ll be expected to choose a language but P8 is only a school measure, not a child measure! You may have to be persistent with the issue later down the line!

Just re read- if it’s help with maths he needs then see if they have access to Dynamo Maths.

OK I'm dyslexic and have to teenage children who are going through GCSE's now. Most schools even if they do normally make most students do a language at GCSE will make expections for weak students.

For example at DS school you study French (they don't have another option) if they don't think they are capable of doing it at GCSE then in Year 9 parents are told and they will get to chose another GCSE.

This happened to me when I was at school as well, they tried and failed to teach me French one year, German another and then Spanish. I couldn't do any of them and didn't do a language GCSE. I did have extra 1 to 1 classes during the week in English but which class I missed to do this I don't remember.

My Nice (you can tell I still can't spell that well) who is dyslexic like me also didn't do a GCSE language. But her school no one has to as her brother isn't doing one either and he's not dyslexic.

I would ask the school if they can pull her out of language's early for extra English and Maths if possible. It doesn't seem any point in trying to keep pushing them when they are never going to get it.

So the metrics thing is about studying a language (not three) at gcse.

speak to the school. He may well be able to drop one or more and do additional support in the extra time.

Mine stuck with it (I didn't ask for them to be dropped, I don't see how it could have been done timetabling-wise as all the y7-9s took the same set of subjects). But it was clearly very difficult. She ended up just taking Latin GCSE as that is about half language half culture and history so it wasn't as hard.

Thank you for replies

He has to choose one language for GCSE but again, I"ve been told that apparently the NC doesn't make this compulsory for dyslexic children. Thus my approach now to say, why are we bothering with the charade- he can't do them and neither will he be able to.

My son is 12, in year 7. Around spring term the SEN teacher suggested they take him out of French permanently to give him 121 literacy support lessons instead. He said they often do that with a few students who struggle.

It’s excluded DS from choosing French as a GCSE (so he’ll do one less GCSE) so he took a few days to think about it, but really it was a no brainer. He struggles to spell in English so French homework was causing a lot of headaches.

He’s learning Greek myths in the 121 lessons (they tend to watch a short video, so some reading/writing exercises and use Lexia) and he’s really fired up about that. I’m really pleased he’s learning some classical literature!

(Should have said - my son is diagnosed with moderate dyslexia. He doesn’t have an EHCP).

Sorry re the time free if he can drop it- I am thinking a reasonable adjustment is that he gets extra time on say maths/ English to really ground what he needs to. That he works in the library rather than other classes. (He comes out of form time once as week for dyslexia support- wondering if it could be done in 1 timetable slot and then 2 other slots in library)

We wouldn't get an EHCP for dyslexia I was told- so never even explored it- we have a formal diagnosis and a learning plan but not a formal EHCP which if I understand it involves going to the council etc and the waiting list is 25 years long?

I suspect the issue will be what they do with him when he is not in language lessons. Do they have staff available to help him at those times? I think if he is struggling with maths so badly he does need extra support and I would ask if they can provide this. However it might not be possible to do extra maths instead of languages.

The problem is exactly as you've described - the chances of them having staff available to supervise him during the language lessons is slim. So, what do they do with him during those lessons? And, no. Working in the library isn't the easy solution you think - because the the librarian needs to be supervising, which restricts her normal activities.

I'd start with trying to drop one (or possibly 2) of the languages. I think you'll get turned down flat for requesting all 3, because it shuts the GCSE door too - that's a discussion for later.
The dyslexia tutoring is likely done in tutor, as that is when the TA providing the support isn't with other students. So, again just moving that to a languages lesson might not be as straight forward as you think.

This involves three lots of staffing in timetabled lessons though, rather than a form time. This might not be possible in terms of just logistics.

These replies are so helpful

The school are really good in our opinion. But, we've never asked for anything really so I have not got experience to pass a sound judgement if the truth be told. I just wanted to know the facts of what say for example could/ couldn't be done

I think it's a sensible suggestion to try dropping 1 maybe 2 subjects and see what happens. Re the time in the library- surely independent learning in a library doesn't need supervision to take away from the librarians tasks?

He's gone from greater depth at maths to 20%. There is a brain overload going on I think meaning he just can't process at the speed or pull from his long term memory what he needs to do. As, when you remind him, he's all over it

A lot of what you have been told is not strictly true.

there is not a 25 year wait for ehcps (he may or may not need one)
the national curriculum is a curriculum and it doesn’t really cover Sen. In any case students are regularly pulled from languages GCSEs - many schools do not make them compulsory at GCSE and even the ones that do usually have provision for some students (who clearly are not coping) to drop out.

in any case it is possible for students to be exempted from the national curriculum (although this is rare and generally only done when students are clearly not coping with any subjects at all).

Nationally it is not compulsory for any child to do a language GCSE, whether dyslexic or not. However, it's common for grammar schools to make it compulsory. I teach at a grammar school and it's compulsory to do 2 languages until the end of Y9 and then one for GCSE. Very occasionally a couple of kids are allowed to drop the language after the mock in Y11 if they are doing really badly and are weak in other areas too. We have quite a lot of dyslexic students and they all do languages and have to take one at GCSE. We don't do Latin though.

Really useful, thank you

I didn't mean 25 years (sorry that was tongue in cheek) I was told that as generally was ok, attempting to get en EHCP was futile and the length of the wait was also ridiculous

The only thing I am looking to change as he goes into year 8 is for a reduction in the number of languages he has to study with my suggestion being in the time that is freed that he spends this on core subjects such as English and Maths to deepen his learning

My ds is severely dyslexic and went to a secondary school with a resourced provision for SpLD. He has an ehcp. I was asked, just before he started, if we wanted him to do a mfl and we decided against it. During the time he would have been studying a second language he was having extra literacy support in the learning support area. My understanding is that one extra language is compulsory unless the child had an ehcp.

My son is dyslexic, in year 7 at a large comprehensive school and only has 1 Spanish lesson a week in order to do extra English and numeracy. He finds duolingo very helpful and does 5 mins of that every night. He is fairly good at listening and talking but writing is difficult.
If the grammar school still want your son to do 1 language then spanish is the most straightforward for dyslexics as the spelling is more phonetic. Latin can be helpful too as learning the origin of words can help dyslexics with their English.

He has extra dyslexia support which is more about learning skills for learning if that makes sense, he has 25% extra time but this is about it.

These exam marks are interesting as he's clearly capable and I don't think needs an EHCP, but, the languages and seemingly maths are problematic. (He knows the maths when you point it out, but he can't remember the process on some of the longer stuff)

It worries me that it maybe the case that we've got to go through all this angst on the languages (he genuinely hates them) until someone deems that it's not suitable for GCSE.

So NC doesn't require a language, but Grammar schools often do them

Thus, it looks like there is no formal requirement of school to do it, but this is about working logistics at a local level and hoping they see common sense trying to find work arounds? Seeing if they'll let him do independent work in the library. I'm not saying he should be having more support/ teacher time Or am I looking at this too rose spectacles.

Not sure if it's relevant but there are only 4 classes in each year group.

Does he need the EHCP in order to drop a language?

Oh, I don't know.

If I think about it not entirely sure what an EHCP does. I was told as he is in selective state grammar chances are nothing will happen as he's already "performing"

Not sure if that's true or not, but now you've asked that question genuinely not sure!