School suggested DS might benefit from repeating Y10 on a different pathway.

[WatchingPaddingtonForThe400thTime]

DS is currently Y10 he’s doing a standard combination of English x2, maths, science x2, German, geography and food tech.

He’s been really struggling this past year - grades and behaviour deteriorating. (Gone from getting 4/5s to getting 1/2s and based on KS3 should be aiming for 6s). I’ve been called into school I don’t know how many times, he’s been re-setted in some subjects, moved forms and spends a lot of his time in detention or time-out. He started going to the horticulture/gardening after school club and that’s the only day I, or the school, have no issues with him because he knows he will miss gardening club because of detention.

School offer an “outdoors” pathway. This is usually offered to children who cannot access full mainstream education for a variety of reasons. (It’s a mainstream state school not a specialist school). On this pathway they do English, maths and ICT as GCSEs or functional skills, and science and food tech as GCSE or BTEC. In addition they do RHS Level 1 in practical horticulture, Level 1 or 2 John Muir Outdoor learning award, Arts Award bronze or silver, and C&G Level 1 Land Based Studies. This pathway also integrates geography, statistics, PE and PHSE/RE into the projects for the other subjects as AQA UAS awards with the potential to take 1 (or more) as GCSEs.

Everything is geared towards project based outdoors/practical learning with some classroom time. They have 6 hours ‘traditional/more mainstream-type’ classroom time each week for English and maths and the rest is outdoors/practical or in the classroom analysing projects results or learning the theoretical side of the skills required to apply to outdoors learning projects or in science labs or cooking ect. The aim of this pathway is really to teach everything in as applied/practical/integrated way as possible including the core subjects.

I’ve been mulling this around in my head for a few days. Half of my thinks this will really suit him and give him that 2nd chance that he really needs. I also agree with school in that it could really engage him in education again. However, half of me things this is not a good idea and he won’t get any GCSEs. Advice needed.

Appreciate that was a bit of a long one, so if you got to the end, thank you!

Do what is right for your child. What does he want?

Sounds like a great opportunity for him. More schools should offer this type of pathway. Not everyone needs all the academic stuff.

What does he want?

On this pathway they do English, maths and ICT as GCSEs or functional skills, and science and food tech as GCSE or BTEC.

I count 5,6 or 7 level 2 qualifications there (assuming that Science is at level 2 and not sure if English and Science counts as one or two ) which would be enough for most college courses if he passes.

The path would have suited my son but he would have probably said no on social grounds- friends were his primary motivation for attending school)

Sounds great!

Wow! More schools should do this!

Has it been possible to get to the bottom of why his grades and behaviour have deteriorated?

What does your son think?

I’d bear in mind that he’s a child of 15ish and at that age they don’t necessarily see round corners like adults can with more life experience. So I’m not sure if I’d defer to him to decide. Why do you think he’s not hitting his potential (6s) on the traditional path?

If he stays as he is, he isn’t going to get his GCSEs either is he?

This seems like a no brainer to me.

Are they offering him an extra yr in yr 11 or are they offering him 1 year courses and he goes straight through to yr11?

On this pathway they do English, maths and ICT as GCSEs or functional skills, and science and food tech as GCSE or BTEC. In addition they do RHS Level 1 in practical horticulture, Level 1 or 2 John Muir Outdoor learning award, Arts Award bronze or silver, and C&G Level 1 Land Based Studies. This pathway also integrates geography, statistics, PE and PHSE/RE into the projects for the other subjects as AQA UAS awards with the potential to take 1 (or more) as GCSEs.

You need to look into some of these as they are not 1 year courses and in the case of things like food tech could be an actual ball ache to catch up on as some of the courses are not just cooking.
Also what exactly is ICT?
If it is making him computer literate, how to use Microsoft office etc. or is it more focused?

Finally with no disrespect to the other pupils or teachers, what are the pupils and results like?

Or is it a dumping zone for those pupils that the school are containing and not teaching so they can bump up there progress 8/league tables score?

This is usually offered to children who cannot access full mainstream education for a variety of reasons.

This clearly includes your Son for whatever reason.

I would be asking about the outcomes for children that have already taken this path, what qualifications did they get, where did they go next etc. Who will be teaching it, some of this isn’t standard school curriculum. It does sound excellent in theory.

I think this is the number one question before any decisions can be made.

The alternative pathway sounds amazing for kids who would engage better with a more practical way of learning (and I wish this could be offered more widely in UK schools), but what exactly is it that your son is struggling with?

What are his post 16 options if he doesn’t achieve any GCSEs. Would a different environment provide the change he needs but with others his age instead of being kept out of cohort in the same environment that he can’t access now. For example college can mean more comfortable clothes no uniform, varied times of attendance and different course options.

I would want to understand why he has gone from having target grades of 6 to suddenly getting 1/2. It implies he is capable but something has gone wrong.

Yes, I agree that they should be investigating why he is in the position he is now, undiagnosed SENs for example

It's a no brainer. He will.enjoy being top of the class no doubt .

Some very excellent comments which have helped a lot and made me have a good think.

To answer a some questions:

What’s next/Dumping ground?
This is a 2 year pathway. It’s offered as a pathway just like any of the other pathways in Y10 and 11. This is an alternative to taking GCSEs in the traditional sense. So he would go back into Y10 and redo Y10 on this pathway and stay on this pathway in Y11.
The school seem to be supportive of this pathway and have employed appropriate staff to teach it e.g. they have employed a specialist in horticulture who has experience working in alternative and SEND education. They have run this pathway for a couple of years now and have had one year complete it fully. They did all get qualifications (I can’t say exactly which combinations or results as it’s a very small group). They all had positive outcomes and went to college or into apprenticeships and one actually stayed on for 6th form. It doesn’t seem to be a dumping ground. They put pupils on this pathway that can’t manage traditional mainstream education (whether due to mental health, learning difficulty, don’t engage with traditional education, or those who just need an alternative approach). The school do include all of these ‘types’ of pupils in the other pathways as well, so I don’t see it as them “dumping” the difficult ones. I genuinely get the feeling that they are trying to offer an alternative which will help the pupils who need it and are going nowhere with traditional approaches.

Route of behaviour?
His behaviour has deteriorated because he “feels stupid/feels thick” so he’s acting out. He’s also decided he hates school, it’s boring and being silly is much more fun. I think he’s got himself into a downwards cycle that’s going out of control based on struggling and not necessarily being able to achieve the target grades, hence feeling stupid, and then acting up which means he doesn’t achieve and this just repeats. This is where I’m thinking he does need the 2nd chance. School have also started questioning, just before Christmas, whether there is any potential underlying learning difficulty and have done some assessments for dyslexia, etc. The school, DS and myself have been working with the SEND team and a referral has been made to the educational psychologist.

Have I asked him?
I have mentioned it to him. We have discussed it. He seems to think it would be interesting to be on the outdoors pathway, but does have reservations of what the others would think of him going back into Y10. So I get the impression he wants to do it but there’s some reservations there around being judged by his peers.

What about a different school?
I’ve considered whether a fresh start in a new school would be of benefit. I’m not sure it would be. Firstly he would still have to go back to Y10 so still outside of his cohort, second he would have to start travelling 1 hour in each direction on the bus regardless of school which may increase the behavioural issues, third there is the potential that GCSEs are just not working and we will be in a worse situation, fourth the current school know him and have started working to get to the bottom of the difficulties where a new school won’t know him, fifth we probably won’t get a place at any other school.

He could go on from there to agricultural college to do horticulture, arboriculture, or conservation.

I would do it because it doesn't sound like he's on track to get any GCSEs as it stands. As an alternative I would think about some tutoring, maybe dropping some subjects. My DD's school for example has a group that don't do a language and use the time for extra support in Maths and English. But honestly I'm not sure that will help with the behavioural issues. Maybe some ELSA sessions or mentoring could if they have anything like that?

I’m with this poster. If he had started this in year 10, brilliant. But going back a year, being removed from his peer group? If he is ‘feeling thick’ now, this certainly won’t help. Peers are so important at this age. What if he starts this and still struggles - where does he go then?

I’d pick up tutoring for English and maths, ask if he can drop German and get study support, talk to him about his aims for the future and this time next year he will be finishing year 11 and able to go to college. Can you look at courses and talk up options?

As an English teacher/examiner, if he’s getting 1s and 2s he just isn’t writing anything and if he can really focus on exam technique, that can help a lot. Predictions of 6s initially show he has potential.

Can I add that I think this alternative route sounds brilliant and I wish more schools were as switched on. I just think it’s come too late for your son.

Common sense, and seeing it written down for me in black and white that he wouldn’t get any GCSEs if he stays in the pathway he’s on anyway, has made me see that moving to the outdoors pathway seems to be a no brainer. At least there he has the opportunity to do horticulture and land based studies, which he is interested in and wouldn’t be able to do other wise, and could achieve some qualifications. I also am very grateful that this type of pathway opportunity does exist for him. (And I could write a whole essay on why and I think this based on when I raised concerns and the school invites me in to see some of the outdoors lessons taking place [well I actually did but deleted it because I decided it was long and I was waffling too much])

However, with his reservations around going back a year and what others would think of him, I worry that this opens him up to potential bullying and I personally think this would impact his education and mental health more than struggling through with the current situation. I therefore think it wise, as suggested above, that we explore underlying reasons further, potential to drop subjects with additional maths/English in those slots, exam technique and what he would be interested in after school at college or somewhere else/future career plans. I also think we need to explore his reservations further and why he has them - potentially actually asking his friends whether what he is thinking is true or not?

We don’t have to make a decision immediately. School have said they will reserve a place in the pathway for him and we don’t need to have made a decision until the end of term (July). They are happy to work with us, and support DS to reach his potential, whatever way the decision goes. He will sit the Y10 mocks in a few weeks regardless so we have time to work on a couple of the above things while we mull this over.

(I would still love to hear other opinions and suggestions during this time though, because so far everyone’s comment has really helped my this evening - Thank you everyone).

The other completely different alternative is home education but you would need an adult to facilitate it or some colleges do a14-16 entry course or look at any local outdoor college offers and what entry requirements are needed for age 16 then work back from that on how to get them. For context we removed our 12hr from school and they are now doing a mix of in person tutoring and online live lessons but focused on their interests but including maths and English.

I think that sounds a wonderful opportunity to achieve more before he falls through the gaps and ends up NEET. Schools are taking a risk when they allow students to repeat a year because once they hit non compulsory school age, they can just walk and there's nothing they can do to stop it - which is bad for the student, negative for results/retention measures and a nightmare for funding.

he needs to do something he loves and finds rewarding. Maybe he could do a taster day in the horticulture stream? He could look at apprenticeships after school.