School suggested DS might benefit from repeating Y10 on a different pathway.

[WatchingPaddingtonForThe400thTime]

DS is currently Y10 he’s doing a standard combination of English x2, maths, science x2, German, geography and food tech.

He’s been really struggling this past year - grades and behaviour deteriorating. (Gone from getting 4/5s to getting 1/2s and based on KS3 should be aiming for 6s). I’ve been called into school I don’t know how many times, he’s been re-setted in some subjects, moved forms and spends a lot of his time in detention or time-out. He started going to the horticulture/gardening after school club and that’s the only day I, or the school, have no issues with him because he knows he will miss gardening club because of detention.

School offer an “outdoors” pathway. This is usually offered to children who cannot access full mainstream education for a variety of reasons. (It’s a mainstream state school not a specialist school). On this pathway they do English, maths and ICT as GCSEs or functional skills, and science and food tech as GCSE or BTEC. In addition they do RHS Level 1 in practical horticulture, Level 1 or 2 John Muir Outdoor learning award, Arts Award bronze or silver, and C&G Level 1 Land Based Studies. This pathway also integrates geography, statistics, PE and PHSE/RE into the projects for the other subjects as AQA UAS awards with the potential to take 1 (or more) as GCSEs.

Everything is geared towards project based outdoors/practical learning with some classroom time. They have 6 hours ‘traditional/more mainstream-type’ classroom time each week for English and maths and the rest is outdoors/practical or in the classroom analysing projects results or learning the theoretical side of the skills required to apply to outdoors learning projects or in science labs or cooking ect. The aim of this pathway is really to teach everything in as applied/practical/integrated way as possible including the core subjects.

I’ve been mulling this around in my head for a few days. Half of my thinks this will really suit him and give him that 2nd chance that he really needs. I also agree with school in that it could really engage him in education again. However, half of me things this is not a good idea and he won’t get any GCSEs. Advice needed.

Appreciate that was a bit of a long one, so if you got to the end, thank you!

I think even if there is a bit of initial teasi g for dropping a great, it won't become bullying if he's never been bullied before. Is he the kind of kid who can stand up for himself?

I think he's heading towards no GCSEs and it's amazing luck he's in a school that's willing to do this. Just wow, how lucky is that? Encourage him that he'll be so much happier doing something he enjoys and will make friends. Are there any other older kids who have done this? Surely he's not the first they've offered it to.

I really would beware of another year of discouragement and disappointment. You don't know how that may effect his self esteem long term, or what he'll get into in order to cope with those feelings. It could be pretty harmful to him even if he doesn't realise that. A bit of irritating teasing at the beginning of the year is mild and he can be taught how to handle it.

His mates will stay as mates. What out of school activities can he start now to secure non-school friends to help with his concerns.

I think it’s a no brainer and it’s very likely he has SPLD, been there with my DC. Ended up paying privately for an assessment when they turned 16.

I think it sounds a brilliant opportunity (I wish I could have done something like this back in my GCSE days).
Is he confident enough to chat to his closest friends and see their responses? If they are good friends I should hope they are supportive.
Any that "tease" him about it or say nasty things are clearly not real friends and he should just ignore them. They aren't worth him wasting his thoughts on them.
His friendship group would likely be changing anyway in a years time as they move on to different schools/colleges/apprenticeship/jobs etc.
I had friends in school that I got on well with - but once GCSEs were done I never saw some of them again.

I would definitely do the alternative pathway if your son is likely to engage with it. Yes some downsides socially but building his confidence and practical career based skills will be so much better than continuing to feel like he’s failing in his current pathway. Sounds like he will get qualifications from the outdoor pathway and self esteem is so much more important to his long term success. Even if he doesn’t get fantastic academic results, he can retake or do more GCSEs or whatever anytime as an adult. But that won’t happen if he doesn’t feel confident in himself with learning.

Either way I would make sure they do investigate any SEN needs, as that is still relevant in either pathway and again if there is a “reason” for underperformance knowing it helps to overcome any barriers and hopefully makes him see it’s not something he can’t necessarily help.

As a teacher, I’ve seen countless kids be targeted grade 6s and not even get 3s/4s in the end. Targets are often really aspirational, not necessarily realistic. So you may want a more realistic up to date predicted grades from teachers rather than targets if you’re still on the fence.

Taking the time to re-do the year and get some qualifications at the end should be something he sees as positive. He shouldn’t feel like a failure or thick or looked down on for investing in his future self. It is sometimes best to have a little bit of uncertainly to go down an unknown path that has possibilities than to stick to a certain one which is leading nowhere. I know this is easier said than done (felt?) but it’s true. I think you should have a good sit down with him and really explain this.

Friendship groups change. If his current friends can’t accept he is bettering himself and this is the right thing for him they are not real friends. He will make friends in the new year group and, in all likelihood, after next year they will all move on and some of them will never talk to each other ever again in their lives.

Remember you are the parent, you have the deciding decision, but he is stating to become a young adult so he needs to feel like he is involved in making the decision but supported and doesn’t have overall control. I would advise against letting him make the decision in case it goes wrong because then he will blame himself, better for you to say you made a mistake and you will help him fix it. He might not like it, you might not like it. But you are the adult and can cope and know there are alternative pathways through life. He will be a teenager with no qualifications so likely won’t cope.

I personally think you should go for the alternative route, but whatever your decision, good luck in making it and please remember this is for the best future interests of your son, not for his friendships (which will change).

I would grab the alternative opportunity with both hands. My ds17 is about to leave school with a handful of average qualifications. I wish he could have done this. I think he would have been happier in school and more proud of his achievement. It's so depressing when people ask him how he did in his exams. If he'd been able to say "oh i did something different, I did xyz" I think that would have made a real difference to how he sees his school achievements.

His schol did offer some practical alternatives but they weren't very well thought through. They were more just to fill a couple of hours on the timetable, then didn't then lead on to anything further. I think this alternative your son is being offered sounds quite well planned out. I would definitely take it.

Is there an option for him to try out parts of the course in what's left of this academic year?

Have gone through the university clearing system, even the more academic unis we spoke to only required 5 GCSE’s passes, and none specified an actual grade to achieve (all asked for Maths and English). Not a single one asked for more than that. Newcastle, Oxford Brookes, Nottingham, Bristol were some of the ones we called

Finally found some time to sit down and write an update. I really liked some of the suggestions above, especially about the taster day, and someone mentioned agricultural college for afterwards which I hadn’t thought about.

I did act on a couple of things said above and once again quizzed the school. There have been kids who have dropped back into Y10/repeated Y10 and done very well. The school have a way/policy for managing.

I have also requested more up to date realistic predictions of his GCSEs from the school - he’s realistically looking at the most 2/3s across all subjects based on current performance with the potential to improve this to 3/4s by dropping a couple of options subjects and extra support sessions in maths and English. They have however said that this is also really dependent on his engagement and behaviour.

I am also thankful of the reminder than I am the parent and need to make a decision in his best interests for his future. Because of that I am being really swayed towards the outdoors pathway. So, to try and get DS a bit more involved in thinking about it and the final decision which he would be comfortable with (rather than feeling we have all forced it on him) I tasked DS with a few things this week:

1. Have a think about whether a taster day would be beneficial.
2. Have a chat with his closest friends and mention it to them to see what their reaction is.
3. Have a think about whether he would be interested in dropping a few subjects if he carried on his current pathway and whether that would help.
4. Have a think about what some of his closest friends do out of school and whether he wants to give that a go as well.
5. Have a think about what he wants to do in the future.

It seems like I have him a lot to think about but I know that if you give him multiple things to think about and then leave him alone for week to think about them then that’s best than thinking about one thing at a time. He hasn’t really said a lot about what I asked him to think about so far, but I do know he’s been speaking to his friends because I bumped into one of his friends mothers in the street earlier and we got chatting. According to her, her DC seems to think it’s a great idea and actually wants to do it himself. So hopefully the friendship situation isn’t going to be an issue.

If i were his friends having to take gcses they aren't interested in, as if often the case (hello all sciences, I'm looking at you!), I'd be envious rather than judgey!

Why on Earth was he doing German? It's notoriously difficult and what's the point ? I would be embracing any help they give as it can lead to a fulfilling career option as opposed to a group of random possibly low grade GCSEs.

Thanks for the update. I didn’t say when I posted earlier, but my DS took a similar pathway from y10 (he has diagnosed SNs and had an EHCP). He took a mixture of 6 BTECs and GCSEs, including a land-based subject, got grades 4-6 or equivalent, went onto 6th form to another mixture of an environmental subject and A levels, get excellent results and is just about to hand in his final dissertation in an environmental studies degree. If you had asked me how this would turn out when he was in y10 I would never have seen him going to uni. What I would say, is that if you and / or the school suspect he has SENs, it is worth pursuing a diagnosis. He may not need an EHCP, but it will help him get support if he does go to uni and will mean he can ask for reasonable adjustments in the workplace in future. He may not need those things now, but diagnosis has long waiting lists and gets complicated as you approach 18 and transfer to adult services. This might not be the case at all, but if you think it might be then do think about it.

I think here's a thought for him to consider: his friends now will not be his friends in 2 and a bit years regardless. He shouldn't be doing things because of what his mates/peers think because ultimately that's not right for him in the long run. Good friends will stay friends with him regardless (because they are good friends) and there's an opportunity to make new friends even if he's a bit older.

Does he want to be in a position in a years time of being with his mates all getting decent results and him getting terrible ones and thinking 'what am I going to with my life?' when the alternative is next year is seeing his mates getting decent grades and being somewhat bewildered about what they want to do, whereas he will be a year behind but will likely have a much clearer pathway to the future and be able to talk about that.

He has to consider when they all him 18 where they will be. He will be much better placed (even though a year behind) than many of them planning to go to university because he will be doing a practical pathway with much better and more obvious job opportunities because he's building up a clear skill set.

It's a tortoise v hare thing.

And actually it's got to be said that as soon as they hit 17 there a period where friendship do naturally change anyway because they all start having different levels of maturity and focus about what they want to do.

He will have maybe one year where others might make comment - because they lack maturity - but after that it really won't matter because they will all be making such different choices about their future.

Yrs 9 - 11 are difficult in a way because there's so many kids trying to prove they are the big I am and they are the best. Ironically this comes from a place of insecurity. If he's the kid who says 'yeah actually this is the life choice for me, this is really what I think I can see myself doing outside school', he actually starts being one of the more mature ones and that will show through despite maybe being with others in the year below. Precisely because he's got that focus and drive and theres nothing really that a dickhead can say to that.

He also will have the benefit in 18 months time of being the eldest with his new friends and there are certain benefits to this in itself.

It sounds like he's been given a fantastic opportunity here which would a) really suit him b) saves him from the potential of a bit of a car crash situation in twelve months time with difficult decisions to make then anyway. This is his reality and what others are doing is irrelevant to that. He might focus on the negatives at this point which are all very time limited. He needs to be really mature about this and consider his long term prospects, which isn't easy at that age. His big decisions about life are simply happening a year earlier than everyone else rather than him being left behind - it's actually quite the reverse and this is what needs to be stressed. He isn't going to be with the kids in his year for much longer regardless of what option he takes here so he shouldn't be worrying about his peers. They won't care at all what he's doing in 2 and a half years.

Fyi range of courses an agricultural college may offer: https://www.sparsholt.ac.uk/level-of-study/full-time/

@RedToothBrush I love that perspective. That’s really put a whole new light on everything and it is so positive (and true). Yes, I need to highlight this to him. It definitely is a good thing to take this step rather than struggle through and be stuck in 12 months time. Like you say, tortoise and the hare and all that. Also re maturity levels - good point.

Thank you. I’ve had quick look and there are so many options there that even I didn’t know existed. I’ll get DS to take a look himself and also point him in the direction of some other agricultural colleges. (A quick google found me a few).

@EndlesslyDecluttering such a positive outcome. Thank you for sharing and well done to your DS. What an achievement!

I plan on perusing the SEN as school have set the ball rolling and it can only be a good think to get him any support that he might need.

The one I linked has boarding facilities if travel is too far, others may do likewise. Plus buses run from far and wide. For these kind of courses he will probably not need to go in 5 days, rather 4 or maybe even 3.

Just a very quick update, but DS, completely out of the blue earlier today, said he wants to try a taster day
on the outdoors pathway. He’s also given some thought about the other questions I gave him to have a think about.

Friends - Close friends don’t seem to have reacted negatively and have been quite encouraging. It’s been noted that he doesn’t even have any lessons with them any more because of options and moving sets (with the exception of geography).

Dropping subjects - He wants to drop everything except geography, food tech and the biology part of science so likely this isn’t going to be a helpful solution (perhaps I should have been a bit more careful with what I asked him….) He also seems to be against the idea of tutoring because he told me “complete waste of time and your money, I won’t do any good and I’ll be bored with even more work to do for stuff I don’t like”, so looks like tutoring is out the window.

Out of school things to keep friendships going - There’s a few things and we’ve discussed signing him up for one of them (explorers).

Career - Something with geography or maybe gardening or something with conservation.

Based on his responses, I’ve pointed out that the outdoors pathway is probably the way forward for him (and I didn’t get any argument about this, which is a sign that he agrees but doesn’t want to admit it at this moment in time). I also mentioned some things about head start in careers and he would have to make these decisions next year anyways. He seems to be happy enough. I’ll get in touch with school on Monday and arrange for him to have a taster day. I will update once he’s been on it.

Sounds really positive.

Oh, my. This would suit my son down to the ground, and I’d accept it in a heartbeat! Sounds like the chance yours needs, op!

Going off at a tangent, but if he’s interested in outdoorsy things, the Field Studies Council offers some great residential courses for late teens (biology/geography/conservation etc) as well as volunteering and work experience stuff:

www.field-studies-council.org/courses-and-experiences/experiences-for-young-people/

Good luck to your son @WatchingPaddingtonForThe400thTime. That sounds like some great options en route to a very rewarding career!

Number of schools offer this vocational pathway though you would never known it. I work with YP with SEN in secondaries. I usually ask them what they want to do post 16 as college course at different levels may only need a 3 at GCSE, you will just take longer to work through level 1 and 2 of the course. As you mention, some schools drop MFL and put on extra maths/English support.

it sounds like school have been really supportive and I do see schools encourage students to stay back in GCSE (and sixth form). I am glad the system has worked for you and stopped another YP becoming NEET.

Let him decide. But that sounds fantastic to me. My DS would have loved that as an alternative to GCSEs.

Knowing a lot of boys who really struggled with school and came out with nothing I think this is a fantastic opportunity for your son. I know people with functional skills who are now studying their degrees at 2:1 level. ICT, maths, English & science at GCSE / BTEC are all fine. There are lots of further/higher education places that do land based studies and horticulture is a great subject to do.