Move or private school?

[EmsRob]

I’m sure this topic has been discussed several times, but I’m interested in people’s insights and experience on whether to spend money on private school or move house.

We have a decent family home in a nice suburban area but would ideally like a bit more space, bigger garden and quieter location. Our mortgage is currently quite small.

Our current house is less than a 10min walk to our kids’ primary school (currently year 3 and reception) - we like the school and our children are happy there so we don’t want to move them from this school if we move, which obviously restricts distance. We don’t mind a drive but with my youngest still in reception we are talking many years of driving back and forth so probably max 20-30min drive.

Our other issue is secondary schools as we live in a 11+ area. Currently, we live right between two highly competitive grammars (one girls and one boys).

Our eldest is doing ok at school, but she’s probably dyslexic and not overly academic so we don’t think she would get in to the girls grammar and it probably wouldn’t be the right environment for her.

But we don’t have a great selection of state comps nearby. The only state comps we are guaranteed are pretty poorly performing. There is one that is doing ok, which she might get into, but that is a gamble and it’s still below national averages.

We have therefore been looking at some private schools that cater to all abilities. I think my daughter would thrive at some of these as she’s more into extra curricular activities, which they have excellent facilities for. She’s also quite shy so can be a bit forgotten in large state classes and a smaller class size would probably suit her.

It is too early to know what will suit my son, but any calculations on private school costs we are assuming will be for him too as I’d like to give them the same opportunity.

Having had our house valued and having looked around for what we want, plus cost of stamp duty, moving will double the size of our mortgage - and therefore probably rules out private school as well as lumping us with a big mortgage.

But moving doesn’t necessarily solve the state school problem as we would be looking to stay close enough to get back to the primary school for my son, meaning we would still be in an 11+ area - so although we could pick somewhere a bit closer to an ok state comp, there are no guarantees.

My question is would you move to the house / location you want a bit closer to an ok to state comp or would you stay put and pay for private school?

It was cheaper and easier for us to pay for Private.

I would see if there is a local private school you like for your daughter, and if yes then stay put and wait and see what happens for your son. Schools and their catchments change, grammar may turn out to be a good option for him etc.
Otherwise if private looks too expansive or there isn’t one you like locally I would move further for good state primary and secondary and move the kids now.

We couldn't afford to buy a house in the catchment for the outstanding state school near us so we opted for private school.

If it’s a pure financial decision I’d need to see the sums. Round our way with the taxes etc just the cost of moving you’d be buying years and years of fees before even buying a stick of new furniture.

Private if you can afford it you get a lot for your money - extra curricular and pastoral and more of an opportunity for input with the school, extra help for dyslexia etc. I’d stay put and do private.

You could wait until you see what school she gets? If it’s private, then move?

You seem to have completely discounted moving to a non-grammar area with better achieving comps (hardly surprising tbf that the sec mods in a grammar area don’t produce the top results) on the basis that you want your DC to stay at their current primary.

I would certainly look at an area suitable for your work commutes which is not grammar and has good secondaries – then consider a move to the catchment of one. Your kids could move to the local primary. The one they are at is not the only primary that you will like, and I would definitely consider this if I were you.

For the same spend (I presume!) everyone could have a better life with the bigger house and just-as-good schools. Admittedly you would lose the small-class benefit of private. If you think that is key then I suggest looking at local private schools as they are not all the same. I mean obviously but it still bears saying.

Thanks, yes the taxes are the issue - we’re looking at borrowing about another £150k-£200k plus circa £100k on stamp duty. That would obviously cost more over the life of the mortgage.

This would be about £2,000 extra in mortgage repayments a month if we increase the mortgage term. We currently have a low fix so our existing mortgage will probably go up by circa £500 a month next year but without an increase in term. We currently over pay it by £250 anyway.

Versus £30k per child per year for senior school (inc wrap around care/transport and VAT) so £300k spent over 8yrs if we move them for sixth form.

We would start saving for school next year to get ahead of ourselves so £300,000k / 10 years is £2,500 per month for schools fees - but we would also have our existing mortgage to pay, which will still go up too.

I’m assuming the new house would be an investment / appreciate in value while education is an investment in our children - but we then wouldn’t have as much invested in property if we need to release equity at retirement.

I’d go for the private school option - cheaper than moving house, and you can then chose the schools that best suit your children which is an incredible gift - I feel the teen years are so important and being at school they are thriving at will set them up for life. I moved my autistic and ADHD daughter at year 3 into a private school (earlier than planned as was planning only from year 7), it’s been brilliant for her - she’s at a small, not particularly academic school. She’s thriving in the small classes and in an environment where everyone gets to participate in everything and represent the school - not only the top 10% of achievers. I’m so relieved to be able to give her this opportunity. I went to a private secondary and it opened a world of opportunities for me I wouldn’t have otherwise

Yes we have discounted that, although I didn’t explain why fully. We have even considered changing jobs and moving 500 miles away!

We are pretty much surrounded by grammar areas, so we would have to move quite fa. I’ve done a lot of research and got stats on over 100 schools in areas within a 1.5hr (one way) commute of our work places. I don’t particularly want that long a commute as I would barely see my children during the week but I’m prepared to consider it (current commute is 1 hour so adding 1hr a day on).

Of the state schools that are at least national average where we could afford the type of house we like within this commute, we’re not sold on the areas - they are often busier or parts of them / nearby is a bit grim. So again not really the lifestyle we want.

We also have a lot of friends and connections to the local area, which being within half an hour of we can still make work. Looking an hour or plus away then we would really leave this all behind.

But what fundamentally stops us looking at anywhere over half an hour away is my parents. My dad is in his 70s and not well. I strongly believe what keeps him going is getting to see his grandkids a couple of times a week and I just can’t take that away from him.

So, when considering all factors - the lifestyle we want, commute, disruption to our kids / risk of their being an issue at a new primary school and family and friends - half an hour further out than where we currently live is the right balance for us, if we move at all.

Where do you live that houses near good state schools are 1.5m?! We are in London & moved from inner to outer, cheaper then private & more space.

Your DD has another 3 years at primary school, you might be surprised how a state school can change in that time. I don’t think you need to make a decision just yet. You also don’t know if she actually is dyslexic or not. I’d stay where you are. Get your DD assessed for dyslexia so you know for sure. Then I’d get her a tutor in Y4 and find out whether she could get into the grammar school - a good tutor will tell you honestly whether she’s capable or not. If grammar school isn’t right for her and the state school hasn’t improved, then you could consider private.

I don’t think I said they were. That’s way more than our budget. I said 1.5hrs away from my work - not sure if you read that wrong?

I don’t feel our local grammar would be the right environment for her, even if she got in.

Other grammars we live out of area from from so she’d need a very high score to get in. Being realistic about her academic abilities, even with a LOT of tutoring, I know that is very unlikely for her. So again we’d probably have to move.

I don’t really need a tutor to tell me what I already know.

@EmsRob

why would you be paying plus circa £100k on stamp duty.?

Reading your update I'm not really sure what you are asking.

You don't want to move more than 30mins away.
If you do move you cant access better state schools anyway.
Moving means you may not be able to afford fees plus a bigger mortgage.
You don't think grammar is the right environment for your dc.
Surely the only option that is acceptable to you is to stay put & pay private?

error

Sorry should have said circa £40-50k on stamp duty. The total extra borrowing we’re looking at is £200-300k but I broke it down wrong.

I wasn’t saying this is what it costs to buy a house near a good state though - you can get a family home near decent state schools in our area for less than our budget.

But we would like to move to a slightly more expensive area and have the house or our dreams, but if we did that we couldn’t afford private school and we don’t leave a grammar area, so is it worth moving or should we stay put.

We could move within our area for a similar house to we have now closer to a good school - but that’s still an expensive option with stamp duty and the fact you’d want to decorate etc. And it wouldn’t be where we want to live so we will end up moving again for the house and location we do want once the school is secure, meaning throwing even more money away on stamp duty long term. But that is the other option.

Or move and send them to an average / slightly below average state comp and perhaps pay for some private tuition.

Or see if we get into the ok state comp near us and then move.

I guess I’m wondering if private is really worth the money and sacrificing having the house and location we want to live in.

I personally wouldn't choose to send my dc to a below average school. But it depends on the child.

Whether private school is worth it depends on the school itself & in your case what you want to prioritise.

I'm surprised a nice area doesn't have at least one good state option though. Tuition is quite common in private schools as well so you may still pay for that.

As I said we moved about 25mins away (not just for schools) but fees here are 30k a yr now & will go up every year so for 2 dc we could well end up paying 400k plus. For us it made sense to put that money into a house, early retirement, dc's uni & house deposits. But my dc are pretty academic & I can pay for a lot of extracurriculars locally so private whilst having value didn't have enough value for the outlay. Plus we have very good state options.

I wasn’t saying this is what it costs to buy a house near a good state though - you can get a family home near decent state schools in our area for less than our budget.

How far away are the good state schools? You could rent near it, get one dc in and then move to where you actually want to live.

You've said the secondary options are average / slightly below. In what way? Exam results are one thing but if they are well set up for dyslexia with good classroom scaffolding and well trained teachers with a low turnover, so we don't have to battle for everything, and a nice cohort of kids, then they might be great for your DD.

I'm in a similar situation as you with dyslexic DD in yr5, grammar schools, and only one secondary here which is not great.

I thought to get into a state school then we have to be living in the house we apply from for a year before applying? Or maybe that’s if you’re renting? But if that’s right, we would need to be in by early year 5. So considering the time it can take to move it feels we need to be going on the market now to be safe.
I don’t know she is dyslexic true, but we and school suspect because of how she’s doing at school, so even if she isn’t then she is still struggling with some things.

There is one decent girls schools in an area, it’s not the countryside as we would like but the area is nice so we are considering it, but unfortunately that doesn’t help anything for our son…

In what way are the schools below average?
If you are looking at average exam grade, yes, they are likely to be below national average, because all the grade 8 and 9 kids have been scooped into the grammar schools.
What do they look like on progress 8? ie how well do they do with the intake they are given, rather than an assumed average (non grammar area) intake? For your daughter, how well do they do with SEN kids?
You need to look at more than the headline figures.

The point here is that you live in an 11+ area. That means - by definition- that one school takes ‘above average’ students and others take ‘at/below average’ students.

Schools’ results, to a first approximation, reflect their intake. Ofsted grades, to a depressingly large extent (the most recent inspection framework slightly mitigated this but not entirely), reflect results and therefore intake.

So you are being illogical in asking for a non-grammar in a grammar area (not a comprehensive - think about what that word means) that is ‘above average’ in terms of results. A moment of reflection will tell you that’s not possible.

For reasons connected to the different socio-economic mix of grammars / non-grammars, as well as the distribution of SEN and associated costs, non-grammars will find it harder to have good progress 8 and will tend to have lower reputations in the surrounding community. They may well, however, provide an expertise in your child’s SEN and provide an appropriate curriculum that a selective school may not.

Rather than seeking a thing that cannot exist - a school that has a lower-than-comprehensive intake for the area but achieves above average results - you should probably visit the schools your child uses most likely to get a place at, and judge for yourself as settings for her. Ask staff at her current school where children with her profile have thrived. Ask local groups / online communities for their views, for a child with her profile.

If you cannot find a place where you believe your child will ‘fit’, then private is probably be the best way forward, as the structural problem that non-grammars in full 11+ areas are not ‘above average’ (and will disproportionately have a more deprived and higher needs cohort than the grammars in the same catchment) will be the same in all surrounding 11+ areas too.