Move or private school?

[EmsRob]

I’m sure this topic has been discussed several times, but I’m interested in people’s insights and experience on whether to spend money on private school or move house.

We have a decent family home in a nice suburban area but would ideally like a bit more space, bigger garden and quieter location. Our mortgage is currently quite small.

Our current house is less than a 10min walk to our kids’ primary school (currently year 3 and reception) - we like the school and our children are happy there so we don’t want to move them from this school if we move, which obviously restricts distance. We don’t mind a drive but with my youngest still in reception we are talking many years of driving back and forth so probably max 20-30min drive.

Our other issue is secondary schools as we live in a 11+ area. Currently, we live right between two highly competitive grammars (one girls and one boys).

Our eldest is doing ok at school, but she’s probably dyslexic and not overly academic so we don’t think she would get in to the girls grammar and it probably wouldn’t be the right environment for her.

But we don’t have a great selection of state comps nearby. The only state comps we are guaranteed are pretty poorly performing. There is one that is doing ok, which she might get into, but that is a gamble and it’s still below national averages.

We have therefore been looking at some private schools that cater to all abilities. I think my daughter would thrive at some of these as she’s more into extra curricular activities, which they have excellent facilities for. She’s also quite shy so can be a bit forgotten in large state classes and a smaller class size would probably suit her.

It is too early to know what will suit my son, but any calculations on private school costs we are assuming will be for him too as I’d like to give them the same opportunity.

Having had our house valued and having looked around for what we want, plus cost of stamp duty, moving will double the size of our mortgage - and therefore probably rules out private school as well as lumping us with a big mortgage.

But moving doesn’t necessarily solve the state school problem as we would be looking to stay close enough to get back to the primary school for my son, meaning we would still be in an 11+ area - so although we could pick somewhere a bit closer to an ok state comp, there are no guarantees.

My question is would you move to the house / location you want a bit closer to an ok to state comp or would you stay put and pay for private school?

Good posts from @cantkeepawayforever and @GoatCatTaco

Op I see why you don’t want to move away from the grammar area but agree, it’s worth looking at possible sec mods to see how your DD would fare.

I agree with PPs that if you are in a grammar area, then the secondary moderns (not comprehensives), by definition, will be below average. You need to dig into the detail a lot more to understand how results measure up to intake, and understand what their pastoral and SEN support is like.

With your list of priorities it sounds as though you would be best to move reasonably locally to somewhere that gives you as high a chance of possible of getting into one of the secondary moderns you would deem acceptable. This is a good idea anyway - you can never be absolutely sure your children will get into grammar school, and your youngest especially is too young to know.

You might need to revisit your £30k pa per child including transport estimate also. My fees (incl Vat) will be over 26k for next academic year and they will go up by 3% plus inflation the following academic year. 5-10% annual fee rises pre VAT were quite common across the country so please bear that in mind when looking at the lifetime cost for both kids.

I've tracked attainment 8 and progress scores, as well as staff turnover, level of absence and percentage of turnover on SENCO as well as reading the school's SENCO reports. We've also visited the schools.

There was one school that we wouldn't have normally got in to, but this year we would, it is still significantly below national averages on the above criteria but I would consider it even though it is on a downward trend (which is why we would have got in this year). So we went to look at it and tbh I was a bit shocked by the quality of staff when I spoke with them.

I do know what you mean @EmsRob . Our choice is a large secondary which is requires improvement offset due to poor send support and reading progress (just what DD needs being dyslexic), has issues with bullying (yr 7 being targeted by yr10 recently), a new ish head and joined a large MAT from some distance away, cue 37 teachers leaving in 2 years, issues recruiting etc. Or a very small secondary some distance away that we might or might not get into, depending.

I didn’t mention in my PP, but recuitment and retention of high quality staff can also be an issue in secondary moderns in fully selective counties. This is especially the case because many of such counties are expensive places to live, with many alternative employment options, so the national teacher recruitment and retention crisis is tending to bite harder there.

Secondary moderns - high levels of deprivation compared with the general population; high levels of SEN; on average lower parental engagement; lower status in the eyes of society; insufficient funding to meet needs; usually no sixth form teaching; very few high ability pupils so even ‘top set’ will be a very wide range of abilities: these are not necessarily workplaces that attract the ‘brightest, best and most ambitious’ of the teaching profession. They may well have attracted some selfless, caring, empathetic teachers with excellent behaviour management and SEN expertise BUT as teaching generally has become harder and harder, these are the very teachers who burn out and leave / become ill, especially in the face of a society that still dismisses their workplaces as ‘below average’ with no appreciation of the context.

Thanks @cantkeepawayforever and @GoatCatTaco helpful posts.

We have done a LOT of research and are doing this very much with what would be good for our daughter in mind.

I've paid for websites that give you all the school data and have an excel with all the data, including progress 8 and attainment scores. But for me the best data I'm drawing conclusions from are staff turnover, happiness rating from parents and percentage of pupils regularly absent. We also speak to people about their experience a lot, I'm from this area so I know a lot about the local schools (maybe too much...).

We have also started visiting any school that we would consider on paper. We haven't got round all of them yet, but a significant proportion.

The only non grammar state we are guaranteed to get entry to without moving is pretty shocking in terms of social issues and requires improvement - its far, far below average and not somewhere I would ever consider.

We've looked at others that are better, still negative progress scores about 20-25% regularly absent, but as you say are probably not better performing because of the grammar factor.

I am considering these specifically with my daughter in mind - I know she requires extra support to reach her academic potential, is naturally shy and so gets easily lost in large class sizes (and often doesn't quite qualify for extra support as she just about makes the expected level), she is a hard worker but compares herself to others way too much, she has a natural flair for art and is sporty so we would like a school with decent facilities for these.

For varying reasons I've been disappointed in all but one state school that we have visited but found private ones we like. Th one state we like is an all girls so to move for that one still leaves us in a pickle for my son.

So after a lot of research we have been left with a choice based on the needs of our daughter. Stay where we are and pay private where I think she will thrive in a smaller class size and her talents for art and sport will flourish or move and accept a school where she'll probably do ok, but not reach her full potential.

How stable are the private schools? Obviously these will not be the ‘high prestige, high fee, highly selective’ type that will emerge unscathed from the current VAT / NI / cost of living pressures. Are those that you are considering

• Full
• Have stable or growing rolls over the last 5+ years
• If you can access them, have healthy-looking accounts?
• Willing to be open about how many children are leaving at times other than end of Y11, and are filling these occasional vacancies promptly?

While the debate about VAT on fees is for another place, it is clear that current financial pressures of all kinds are exerting a ‘selection pressure’ on the private schools sector at the moment, which the more robust will withstand. Just take care that the ‘small classes’ that attract you don’t in fact mean ‘financial vulnerability due to falling rolls’.

Good point re rolls & viability @cantkeepawayforever

That's a good point - thanks