Candidates flying from overseas to sit super-selective grammar 11+

[PopcornPoppingInAPan]

A friend told me for one of the super super selectives in London that some candidates who live overseas had flown in to sit the 11+ exam. If successful the whole family was relocating here. (This is foreign nationals, rather than “ex-pat” British families living overseas.) The school has no priority area.

I wondered if anyone had heard this and whether it was credible or if it’s one of those internet rumours?

I was also wondering if it’s even possible to do this. Obviously families do relocate to the UK and assuming they and the kids have a right to reside then the kids will be entitled to a school place. But can you do it before you’ve moved here?

I guess if you can put down a relative’s address as your address for the purpose of sitting the exam and then submitting the CAF maybe that’s all you need. I wasn’t sure if LAs did any more checks on candidates who aren’t already on their books at state primary, IYSWIM.

I have heard of a family moving from Yorkshire when their DC got a place at the same super selective school so perhaps this is just an extension of that.

If this is QE then yes, it’s probably true

It might be possible to take the test itself, as schools often do not verify candidates' details, such as DOB or home address. Not to mention, immigration status is typically overlooked. It is known that, in some superselective grammar school tests in London, certain groups exploit this loophole to gain an advantage. For example, they might ask older tudents to sit the test to gather insights into its content. This is clearly an example of misuse the public resource.

When it comes to the actual CAF or intake process, it depends on the LA. Some do require a birth certificate and evidence of long-term residency in the country. This makes it more challenging to bypass their checks. Even if someone manages to do so, they could face disputes or reports from others once they are admitted.

For super selective schools that have 3,000 applicants, even if a few candidates did fly in from overseas, it would not make a difference to your child's chances unless you end up being #1 on the waiting list. They also can't just move here if a child gets in, the parent would actually have to get a job and work visa here to enrol their child in a state school. If i were you, I would focus on studying hard and working on earning the place at a superselective, not worry about this hypothetical risk of a few extra candidates flying in.

Oh, we don’t live in London and didn't apply to the school in question (DS has just won a scholarship to an academically selective indy 😊) so it doesn’t affect us at all.

I was just curious if this was a “thing”, and whether it was allowed under all the relevant rules or if it would mean bending or breaking them. I agree that even if this is going on the numbers are likely to be very small and therefore have only minimal impact on the overall picture.

@Dtnews has also made me wonder whether some people may use “ringers” to sit the exam (ie get a different, probably slightly older child with a track record of doing very well in 11+) and secure a place entirely fraudulently. Pure speculation on my part but it’s indisputable that some parents will go to huge lengths to secure a school place for their child, and unless schools implement ID checks on the day there must be a risk of such abuse.

The grammar exam is free to sit in. I'm not entirely sure about the "ringers" , but it is certainly possible for someone who does not qualify to sit the exam to memorize its content, such as tricky vocabulary or specific types of math questions. This could potentially provide an unfair advantage to other groups of students who sit the exam later sessions. Or used by tutoring agencies in their future students. However, I believe it is a futile effort for those parents. The true 'selling point' of these super-selective schools isn't really their resources, but rather the student and parent community—something that appeals to those who value the idea of grouping such individuals together. Even so, attempting to gain an advantage by squeezing in raises doubts about what long-term benefit the child would actually derive from it.

No. It's no a thing. Very few families would be able to do this. It would cost a lot of money to relocate to UK which most would prefer on private education not a UK state grammar.

We had to show ID then our children sat 11+.

I thought super selectives did not have catchments per se-they give places according to scores.

Yes my SIL did this but for a school in another country. The family were considering relocating in general so flew over to sit the exam, put in an application then dropped out a few months later as they decided not to move.

What ID did your children show?

My child had to show ID for the 11+ exam. Had to put a photo on a form with other details and then the primary school stamped it. He had to show it before the exam. They kept it. We are nowhere near London.

I did see an article about a child who lived on the IOW and took quite a few exams to grammar schools all over the place.

What if the child was home school?

We're in a grammar area, including one of the Super Selectives with rumours about boys sitting the exam from long distance and then families relocating.
The children have to sit the standard 11+ in uniform which is meant to try and reduce 'ringers' so must be a bit of an issue. However you have to provide a lot of information when you apply and also when you accept a place so although children are applying from a long way off just in case they won't get places unless they meet the criteria as well as passing the exams.
I'm also slightly suspicious that one of the reasons that the SS schools do so well is that the parents do ongoing tutoring so it's not necessarily that the school's ability to deliver good results is quite as good as it appears

Most foreign nationals that have the funds to relocate to the UK chose private schools simply because its easier. Firstly they take anyone regardless of parents immigration status, secondly they take boarders so the parents don't even have the relocate permanently.

To accept a place at any state school if your child is foreign national you need:

1. Proof of Identity and Immigration Status for the child and the parents. This means parents usually have to have a work visa, and dependents are allowed via that visa
2. Proof of Residence: your address has to be within the catchment area.
3. Birth Certificate
4. Previous school records

The immigration status on its own excludes most foreign national children from attending state schools.

The only reason a foreign national would fly their child into take the grammar school exam is because they know they need to immigrate to the area for work purposes later on in the school year.

What you should actually be more worried about is other UK nationals driving their children down from other parts of your city/the country to take the grammar school exam in your local area (and lying to circumvent the postcode requirements), then relocating when they get a place. This is far more common, and does in fact push children onto the waiting list who otherwise would have got an offer.

However on the flip side, schools admissions are transparent but hardly fair. If you don't have the money to rent/buy in the best school areas why does your child have to go to the poorly performing, underfunded, leaking comprehensive?

Regarding ‘ringers’ - in our area they take a photo of the child on the day of the exam to make sure it’s the same child that starts in Y7.

Thanks @bluegoosie, are those foreign national checks made at the point an offer is made and then accepted (so after National Offer Day)?

You're right that even if this is happening, it will be dwarfed by the domestic gaming of the system for school places. I guess there are two related questions:

1. Are the admissions rules fair and fit for purpose?
2. Are people sticking to the rules (even if gaming the system) or are people making and getting away with fraudulent applications?

Where I live there are two high-demand/fairly high performing comps with pretty small catchment areas (we're not in grammar school area). The road I'm on is outside the catchment for either.

I know of 4 families just on my road and the adjacent road who have moved into the catchment (either renting or buying a second home) have lived there for around 18 months to get their eldest into the school, and then have moved back to the out of catchment family home. While this causes some grumbling it is allowed under the school's admissions rules.

However, the rules for the other secondary, which is a bit further away, prohibit this and require you to 'sever links' with your out of catchment home if you move into catchment. So if anyone did try the above trick and got caught, their child would risk losing their place .

Of course some schools (Latymer, I think?) allow people from all over the country to sit the exam and only require you to be in their priority area by the time they process the applications (January?). So people could quite legitimately move from out of area to take up a place. And QE Boys has no priority areas at all AFAIK.

These policies could be challenged as unfair and wrongly squeezing out local kids.

But families actually lying about residential addresses is a whole other kettle of fish and clearly does go on even if LAs try to do checks and investigate suspicious cases.

When my home educated child sat the 11+ we had to take his passport to the school office of the prospective school, they stamped a form with photo and he then had to take that to the actual exam.

If this is QE or HB I believe it’s been known to happen for years now. There are tutors who teach this audience now. No new news.

@PopcornPoppingInAPan Most LAs require foreign nationals to fill out a schools application form with proof of the parent's and child's immigration status and usually also proof of residency at the time of the application. Only after successfully processing this will the child be offered a place (grammar or comp).

NB: Residency proof is required but not necessarily always at the same time as the immigration status because sometimes the application is done before the family has secured a specific property but they know they will be in the area.

Generally this application is for in year placements and is not part of the schools admission process for all the local children. People immigrate for work all the time but most jobs do not align with the school year. In reality most foreign nationals relying on the LA end up with very little choice in where their children go to school, and usually go to undersubscribed schools.

If the audience becomes significant, it could make a difference to other children's chances

Yes - true we had that in my area where my son applied for grammar school. More and more common

A family in my son's class have made their kid sit multiple 11+ across the country (according to the child - but definitely Birmingham & London). With the intention of relocating.

Yet another reason why the grammar system is a load of rubbish & should be scrapped.

How is this helping the brightest kids have equal opportunity in education? It helps the richest kids get an additional advantage.

DS got into one of the London superselectives this year and we only found out on 3 March. There is no way of knowing for 2 of the London boys superselective grammars in advance whether you will get a place - those are the two that have second stage tests and they do not tell you the result. We already had to complete an enrolment form to provide birth certificate and copy of passport so for those two there would not have been time to get the paperwork in order for those trying it on from overseas. If they are not eligible then the place will presumably be offered to someone else on the waiting list.
Which essentially means this can only be a possibility for a superselective grammar which guarantees a place following a communicated stage 1 score - QE? And then you would have to move to UK, sort out visas etc, get a job between October and March. It would be such a minority of kids able and willing to do this, hardly worth getting worked up over.
And by the way, contrary to popular belief I doubt money can buy you a place at any of these grammar schools. You do need to have a certain amount of brains and speed to pass in the first place as there is quite a lot of competition. We did not tutor and DS is very bright but no genius. He got in. Thankfully the one he is going to is relatively local. We did meet a few people doing the 11 plus rounds all over the country. They typically have 1 kid only. Again, it will be a minority willing to do that. What does happen sometimes is that kids from our area make the waiting list only but get offered superselectives at the other end of London and kids from that area come all the way here. Now that makes no sense for the kids themselves. It would be better if all these top schools coordinated their admissions so this does not happen the way it does currently.

contrary to popular belief I doubt money can buy you a place at any of these grammar schools

With brain power only to get in without money or tutoring is highly unlikely.

And by the way, contrary to popular belief I doubt money can buy you a place at any of these grammar schools. You do need to have a certain amount of brains and speed to pass in the first place as there is quite a lot of competition. We did not tutor and DS is very bright but no genius

You are genuinely saying that the middle class kids who are vastly over-represented have 'a certain amount of brains' that lower income kids do not?
Privilege encompasses way more than a tutor.