SW London schools: info on Graveney, Chestnut, Hurlingham etc

[PForParent]

I would like to get some thoughts on secondary state schools in the Wandsworth area.

We are ruling out single-sex schools, and super-strict schools like Ashcroft.
Private schools or moving to another area are not realistic options, for a multitude of reasons.

Our priority is to find a reasonable balance between a school which is reasonably rigorous, but not to the point that it crushes kids' spirit with petty, capricious, unnecessary rules and punishments. Eg think of the scandals at Holland Park School or Mossbourne, with well-documented cases of emotional abuse.

Our impressions so far:

Graveney: seems great if we can get in with the test (we appreciate it's not easy).

Chestnut in Balham: seems less academic than Graveney but still a reasonable balance.

Ashcroft: never ever ever. Detentions for cycling to school? Please. And the supposed "catch up" if you miss a day is bs: they simply put you in a detention room, there is no teaching. Way too much homework: the kids we know who go there have given up all their other activities, have stopped reading, that's really extreme.

Hurlingham Academy in Fulham: Impressions were good. Seemed a reasonable balance. Some doubts about the school not having sixth form.

Saint Cecilia: we know many families whose children are happy there. But it seems one of the least academic, and with very little homework (the opposite problem to Ashcroft)

Harris Wimbledon: very mixed feedback. Some say it's a very good and very academic school, some say it's far too strict.

Harris Battersea: very mixed feedback, but in the opposite sense to Harris Wimbledon: some say it's good, some say it's not academic enough.

Southfields Academy: terrible impressions. The kids seemed feral. It seemed the least academic of the whole list.

When sharing your thoughts, please:

• respect our preferences. If Ashcroft or a single-sex works well for your kids, I am very happy for you, but don't try to convince me to send my kids there. If someone asks for a Chinese restaurant you don't tell them that Indian food is better :)
• please try to take into account not just your personal experience, but how someone else's experience might differ. Eg our kids are reasonably happy at their primary, but I'll be the first to say it's one of those "my way or the highway" type of schools, and it's not a good choice for anyone with any kind of special needs

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! Thanks a lot!

Could I ask you to elaborate? Do you mean that the schools receive funding per student, so undersubscribed schools will have less funding? And are therefore maybe more likely to close?

The two undersubscribed schools (Harris Battersea and Southfields) would not be our top priorities but they might be a plan B. I mean, if she doesn't get in any of the others, we cannot go private, nor would we homeschool, so there would really be no alternative in that case.

The big question for me is if the opposite trends of i) fewer families going private after the VAT hike and ii) falling birth rates and families leaving London (many primaries have already closed) will offset each other or not

I think that 2024 0 is from March not September- I have asked both Bolingbroke and Wandsworth for the September 2024 numbers but haven't managed to get them. Have you?

The link to the council's website https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/media/yi1hafdr/previous_years_admissions_for_wandsworth_secondary_schools.pdf
shows both March and August numbers, so it tells you how much the waiting list moved

The information shown gives a breakdown by admission criteria on national offer day (1 March or the next working day) and also shows the furthest distance at which it was possible to offer an applicant under the school’s distance criterion by the end of August

Bollingbroke, admissions from non-feeder schools:
2024: none in March vs none in August
2023: none vs 12
2022: none vs < 5
2021: none vs 26

Like I said, the big question for me is if the waiting list will move less because the VAT on private schools is convincing fewer people to go private. We'll see

Thanks, I had an old version of that saved on my phone without august!

We're y5 at a state primary and have seen >5 of the class leaving to private in the past/coming year - mainly streatham & clapham but also emanuel 10+. I've been surprised by how many people are still happy to sign up for secondary fees.

What schools are you hoping for?

@todayortomorrow Graveney and Chestnut would probably be our top choices now.

We need good scores in the Wandsworth test for both: Graveney because we live too far, Chestnut because only in the top band would we have a chance by distance. There are also specialist places at Chestnut but my kid isn't artistic enough, and the language test seems very hard to prepare for.

On Hurlingham the main doubt is that it doesn't have a 6th form.

On St Cecilia and Harris Wimbledon we don't have a clear picture and are trying to get more colour by speaking to as many families as we can.
Impressions are that St Cecilia would be a decent plan B

We were tempted to rule out Harris Battersea and Southfields, because the fact they are undersubscribed is maybe not a good sign, but we don't have a clear picture and are trying to get more colour there, too.

https://www.headteacher-update.com/content/news/falling-rolls-will-wipe-1bn-from-school-funding-across-england/#:~:text=Regionally%2C%20the%20analysis%20finds%20that,the%20South%20West%20(6.24%25).

@PForParent yes it's based on headcount which is the issue.

The big question for me is if the opposite trends of i) fewer families going private after the VAT hike and ii) falling birth rates and families leaving London (many primaries have already closed) will offset each other or not

Anecdotally I would say no, despite the clamouring re VAT, PE fees have increased massively over the last few decades & people can still pay. Plus the demographics in certain areas is changing, eg much wealthier families moving in. People who traditionally would stay in are living further out because of house prices/school fees.

moving further out not living.

@todayortomorrow We're y5 at a state primary and have seen >5 of the class leaving to private in the past/coming year - mainly streatham & clapham but also emanuel 10+. I've been surprised by how many people are still happy to sign up for secondary fees.

I don't know how representative that is, but we have seen a lot of movement out of London altogether. The impression (I can talk only about impressions, I don't have hard data) is that most primary schools, even the oversubscribed ones, have available places in most years, as families have been leaving left right and centre, and that the phenomenon is the most acute in the current Y4 and Y5.

But then this doesn't quite match with the fact that the preliminary March offers for secondary schools show more siblings and narrower catchments for most schools.

So I have no idea if my impressions are simply not representative (could well be) or if the current Y6 classes witnessed fewer families leaving London than the Y4 and Y5.

You would need a very high score to get into Graveney, above 240 probably

people start tutoring in yr 4 but don't often talk about it...

But then this doesn't quite match with the fact that the preliminary March offers for secondary schools show more siblings and narrower catchments for most schools.

The birth rate bulge year is still working through secondaries. Think it starts to decline the next few years. And there are obviously a fewer number of secondaries that people want.

I don't know how representative that is, but we have seen a lot of movement out of London altogether.

I've seen the same but of the ones who stay a lot can afford PE and/or have parental help with fees.

Actually I know a few families who have moved to outer boroughs from inner and I think some of those boroughs are bucking the declining birth trend.

Yes, I know, getting into Graveney isn't easy.
Over the past years, the minimum score has ranged from 239 - 247 (not in March but by August).

It is easier to be in the top band for Chestnut, which has a wider catchment area. Chestnut considers the average of the two parts of the test, whereas Graveney the sum, but in the past you would have needed an average of 113-114 (ie a total of 226 - 228) to be in the top band at Chestnut

OP your biggest barrier will be catchment areas and for Graveney the high mark required for the entrance test. We know lots of very academic (and heavily tutored for the test) kids who didn't get in (but are targeted for grade 8-9s at GCSE at other schools).

Be realistic about catchments and don't assume there will be an exodus from London. Most of dd's classmates from reception are still in London now in yr 8.

Yes, yes, absolutely, I am being realistic.

Our child is doing decently on the preparation for the test, but we are not deluding ourselves thinking it's a slam dunk. We know that it's not, and that competition is very tough. In fact, it is hard to get a sense, because AFAIK the council doesn't publish the percentiles, i.e. it tells you that you needed a score of, say, 247 to get into Graveney, but not if that score corresponded to the top 2% or top 6% or what.

In terms of odds, I would say that:

Graveney: only if she does well in the test, so no slam dunk

Chestnut: easier because it's easier to be in the top band at Chestnut than getting into Graveney, but no slam dunk either

Huurlingham and St Cecilia: much more likely based on recent history. Only in 2020 in St Cecilia would we not have got in. Based on the preliminary March numbers just published, we wouldn't have got in either, but then there are more siblings than in the past, and in the past the waiting list has always moved a lot

Harris Wimbledon: can't find the more recent data anywhere

Harris Battersea and Southfields are undersubscribed. Some say they are good schools anyway, some say it's a bad sign. I don't know.

To be clear, I am not assuming an exodus; if anything, the opposite: I fear that waiting lists will move less than in the past if the VAT hike convinces fewer people to go private

@PForParent as scores are standardised, you can know where you need to stand. A Wandsworth test score of 240 would mean you score 120 on average on the subtests (VR/NVR). A standardised score of 120 equates to the 91st percentile, i.e. top 9%. Your child needs to be about top 5% of all candidates taking the Wandsworth test to get in initially and at least top 10% to have a chance of getting in via waiting list.

The qualifying scores dropped a couple of years ago not because it has gotten easier to get in but because the test is not mandatory anymore, so only those keen on banding tests and schools that admit that way are taking it - this has likely led to an overall more competitive cohort.

So perhaps 5 years ago one needed to be in the top 3% but that was among all children (so a real average), whereas now it may be top 5% or top 8% of a smaller but better prepared cohort.

I know people who qualified for bursaries at private but didn't get Graveney so it's definitely competitive.

It will be interesting to see if this yrs score drops much over the Summer because the kids got places at grammar's or privates.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wandsworth_year_6_test_scores_20

This is old, from the days when it was compulsory, but interesting to get a feel for actual score distribution.

Agree with all that it will be informative to see what happens to the graveney number over the summer. I expect it to be similar to last year so around 240 by September.

On the grandparents point, if 1/3 of private fees in the UK are paid by grandparents, I could imagine that up to 1/2 of wandsworth secondary fees are - and that demographic are not very price sensitive.

Arriving a bit late for this topic. I can't say for personal experience yet, but my child has just been offered a place at Harris Wimbledon. My impressions were very good on the open day.
All children looked happy, the head is passionate and on the ball. The school is brand new, so the building will be solid and no asbestos (it's a thing, do some research). I also know of parents that have children there and they are very pleased with the school. Harris are the best performing academies in the country, they do a lot of cross school sports tournaments with other Harris schools. It's also the only school I visited that teaches Latin, which I think it's huge, people underestimate how Latin is important as the base of so many modern European languages
The only negative thing I can think of for now is the location; it is not the nicest looking area (South WImbledon), very industrial and near busy roads. But the school itself is facing a quiet road. It's also not as big as other schools, so not much of an outside area, but this is not necessarily a bad thing coming from a small primary school.

Graveney offers latin but that may be A-level

Re request for thoughts on Graveney and Chestnut Grove

Just chiming in that everyone I know who got into Graveney was tutored, and it's very competitive.

If you look at Chestnut Grove and specifically at the results by prior attainment - those who are rated high (and would be admitted under Band A) are doing well. www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136883/chestnut-grove-academy/secondary/results-by-pupil-characteristics?accordionstate=1
Looking at this specific breakdown across schools was a much better comparison for me than just looking at the overall average grade.

Band A does really move - but it does involve waiting until end of August, which can be quite torturous as there will be no movement for ages and then a sudden update on the website. We were offered right at the end but turned it down as DC felt committed to another school by that point.

I know people who are there under language and arts places and they like it. I personally think Chestnut Grove is a great option very comparable to Graveney.

@PatientVesta,
I disagree on the importance of Latin. I think learning a modern language is incredibly more useful, but that is neither here nor there in the great scheme of things (Italians study ancient Latin and ancient Greek in some schools, but they are notoriously worse at modern languages than the Scandinavians, who don't). If state schools all offered Latin, private schools would start offering ancient hieroglyphs just to differentiate themselves :)

May I ask if you found data on admission distances anywhere? I didn't find it on Merton's website, and the school only published the 2023 data.

Have you had a chance to compare Harris Wimbledon with Ashcroft and Graveney? In a local forum I was crucified for criticising Ashcroft, and told that Graveney and Harris Wimbledon have a similar attitude to discipline and detention. That's the first I hear of it. Would you agree with this?

Lastly, it may be too far for you, but have you ever looked into Harris Battersea? It is rated outstanding but remains undersubscribed, which I find odd. Some say that it's a good school regardless and some say it's undersubscribed for a reason.

@minimiffy how does the waiting list work, exactly?

Let's say that in March I am offered Harris Battersea, which is not my top preference.

I must still accept it, right?

Then the council will tell me if I move up the waiting list at Chestnut?

So I can still accept Chestnut in August, even if I accepted Harris Battersea in March?

Harris Wimbledon is our nearest school so although we are a way off secondary for DD1, we are watching how it progresses carefully. It's just such a shame (imo) that it only offers Spanish as its MFL. I studied French, German and Russian at my standard comp in the north of England (also the option for Spanish but I never took that one) and I would like my DC to also have a bit of a choice. Seems that schools have really pulled back on MFL.