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Secondary education

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St Cats Bramley - exploding scholarships advice

51 replies

JJMilford · 17/01/2025 16:58

We have scholarship offers from StCatherines Bramley, near Guildford. It's an independent girls school.

St Cats have actually been bothering us to accept their scholarship offer - effectively hinting that if we don't accept it, the offer of a normal place will be withdrawn too. Admissions lady has been very pushy and we are a little turned off by it.

I'm sure this is a little bit dodgy and is practically an exploding offer - are they that over subscribed this year?

Is it allowed?

Anyone else?

OP posts:
tennissquare · 17/01/2025 18:10

In general a private school can make whatever offers it wants with conditions attached. I suspect St Cats is trying to tie down the high performing candidates before the Tormead and GHS offers are out.

A few years ago there was a poster on MN who's dc achieved a scholarship from GHS and was pressured to accept before state offers date in early March when their Tiffin place would be confirmed, the parent held fast for the state school place that was achieved.
The st cats admissions person will be feeling the heat from the leadership team to convert scholarship offers into confirmed places.

SurreyClassics · 17/01/2025 18:53

We have the same issue, we haven't been called by anyone to 'bother us', but the offer does say that we had to accept the scholarship offer, and if it wasn't accepted by their offer evening, then it was implied that the offer would be made elsewhere.

I totally agree with the PP that admissions must be under pressure right now, but is it actually 'right' that this much pressure is applied to parents and girls? We were hoping to go to number of other offer evenings before deciding.

I'm now actually backed into a corner as the scholarship was nice to have and liked StCats, but DH is now raging and days if things the way they operate....

AndreaKnowsBest · 17/01/2025 19:28

Never hear of StCats doing that before. Must be new for this year. I guess they are trying to secure places at the school before other schools deadlines by tempting with scholarships. I imagine to secure the nest kids they can in those scholarship areas.

I imagine its totally above board, but isn't very cricket

ScaryM0nster · 17/01/2025 19:33

Short of discrimination based on a protected characteristic they can pretty much do what they like.

If they want to award all the scholarships at the point of place offer then realistically they’ll need to withdraw the normal place too as they’ll need it for another pupil.

LIZS · 17/01/2025 19:37

There no "rules" preventing this. They often set acceptance deadlines independent of other schools' and London schools have had exploding offers in past, higher demand, years. If you decline they may have a reserve in mind for the funding.Presumably they are not your top choice.

SurreyClassics · 17/01/2025 19:45

Thats fair, but from what I've read it's also against the ISC code of practice to do this.

Mouseylu · 17/01/2025 19:46

Exploding offers are totally against the agreed code of conduct for independent schools. Schools cannot require acceptance of an offer before the release date of state offers. Many have fallen foul of this and have tried to ‘force’ families to accept offers. This is in direct contravention of agreed ways of operating.

JJMilford · 17/01/2025 19:49

SurreyClassics · 17/01/2025 19:45

Thats fair, but from what I've read it's also against the ISC code of practice to do this.

What code is this please?

OP posts:
SurreyClassics · 17/01/2025 19:53

Google:

"you will be aware the Code of Practice sets out the principles, agreed by the five Heads’ Associations (GSA, HMC, IAPS, ISA and the Society of Heads) in relation to pupils attending, or seeking to attend, schools in membership of one or more of the ISC Heads’ Associations. The Code is also endorsed by ISBA and AGBIS, who recognise that the management of pupil admission and transfer is an executive role delegated to the head. Whilst the Association recognise the day to day activity and work is conducted by Registrars and admissions personnel adherence to the Code is a requirement of membership for heads of the individual Associations and it is the head, as the member, who will be held to account for breaches of the Code. The first Monday in March is an important date for 11+ entries, acceptance of offers cannot be required before this date and acceptance of scholarship places must also adhere to this date – any requirement made to parents to accept a scholarship place before this date is in breach of the Code of Practice"

Mouseylu · 17/01/2025 19:54

The agreed code of operation for schools in HMC, GSA(St Cats) and others independents

JJMilford · 17/01/2025 20:11

OK, I'll speak to the Registrar on Monday to see whats going on as they are in the GSA. However, I feel we have lost our enthusiasm.

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AndreaKnowsBest · 17/01/2025 20:25

@JJMilford and @SurreyClassics , Did you get sent this in writing from StCats. Its really cheeky, if those are rules.

Do you have or are waiting on any other local scholarship offers that this would jeapodise?

I know Priors Field and Tormead in GSA, and GHD and Tormead in HMC too.

JJMilford · 17/01/2025 20:33

Offers due imminently from others, this is undue pressure we don't need. I always thought the idea should be a fair choice when all options are presented.

Is this work of the current Head or is this the new one pulling the strings?

@AndreaKnowsBest , who is GHD?

OP posts:
Jakob1980 · 17/01/2025 20:42

We've heard the same. Place offered earlier than other schools and scholarship too. Accept by prospective family event. Which is before the deadline. Confused. What do they do, let you keep the place but loose the scholarship or loose both? All seems a bit off piste and unfair, if accurate. What's the actual story from the school?

AndreaKnowsBest · 17/01/2025 20:42

JJMilford · 17/01/2025 20:33

Offers due imminently from others, this is undue pressure we don't need. I always thought the idea should be a fair choice when all options are presented.

Is this work of the current Head or is this the new one pulling the strings?

@AndreaKnowsBest , who is GHD?

Sorry, GHS.

JJMilford · 17/01/2025 20:46

OK, thanks. Thoughts it was a brand of hair straighteners! Haha

Just coming through now, that's the point. Just so frustrating to be badgered into making a choice before you have all rhe options available.

You'd think schools were trying hard to win people over nicely, but StCats have suitably p*ssed me off with this.

OP posts:
Notonyours · 17/01/2025 21:08

Just vote with your choice. If you like St Cats and want the offer take it.

If you wanted to hear all the options, because your clearly not decided yet, then wait for them and decide. St cats can wait.

I'm pretty sure no school right now is turning down kids - so I'm certain your place is secure.

This is a strategic change that will either work for them or backfire.

BeckyAMumsnet · 20/01/2025 12:49

Hi all, we received the following statement from St Catherine's.

Mumsnet has offered St Catherine's the right of reply on this thread.

St Catherine's make a limited number of academic scholarship offers. In all our offer letters, we ask parents, where they are in a position to do so, to confirm or decline our offer as soon as they are able and in advance of the final acceptance date. The wording we use is: 'The absolute deadline for acceptance of this offer is 12 noon on Monday 3rd March 2025, as agreed by all Schools in membership of the Independent Schools Council (of which the Girls' Schools Association to which we belong is a member as are almost all other independent schools via their own associations). We all abide by that deadline to allow those genuinely in any kind of dilemma to consider their choices carefully without feeling under any pressure. However, if you confidently know we are your first choice, or if you know you will decline our offer, please can I urge you to confirm this so that I can manage the long waiting list of applicants that I will be running this year. I would be most grateful'. We do this out of respect for those families who are keen to join St Catherine's but might be on our waitlist. For families where St Catherine's is their first or only choice and who can confirm immediately or prior to the final acceptance date, this allows us to put other parents and their daughters at ease by effectively managing our waitlist.

For scholarship offers, the wording we use is: 'May I ask you to respond now to this offer ahead of the usual agreed final date for the acceptance of a place if you possibly can. Should you have selected another School for , her place in the St Catherine's community can be passed on to the next most able and deserving candidate on our entrance examination waiting list. I would therefore be very grateful to receive your written acceptance of this award by Monday 3rd February 2025 or earlier. If you have any queries about 's Academic Scholarship Award, please do not hesitate to contact our Registrar Mrs Clare Woodgates'. This is because should a family inform us that they do not wish to take up a scholarship offer, in advance of the deadline, we are then in a financial position to be able to offer it to the next deserving candidate. In the current economic climate, we appreciate that finances are a key decision-making factor for families.

We abide by the five Head's Associations Code of Practice, with a final acceptance deadline of all offers being the first working day of March each year, in this instance Monday 3rd March 2025. This year, we can confirm our admissions team have made no direct contact with any of our scholarship offer holders whatsoever since despatch of our offer letters, nor have we received any enquiries from parents holding scholarship offers regarding the acceptance deadline.

We are therefore concerned about this discussion and feedback and will certainly review the wording in our offer letters to avoid in future any possible interpretation that a scholarship offer would be withdrawn if not accepted by Monday 3rd March 2025. We acknowledge from this discussion that parents have felt ambiguity and concern and it was with regret and concern that we read this thread.

If any family holding an offer at St Catherine's has any queries relating to the admissions process and offers made please do contact us. Mrs Woodgates, Senior School Registrar, would be delighted to speak with you on 01483 899609 or via email to [email protected] We look forward to welcoming families, who have both accepted our offer and those who are still considering their options, to our Offer Holders Event on 30th January 2025.

We must reiterate that there is no pressure whatsoever to accept an offer of a place for anyone who is not ready to do so, and we abide by the Code of Practice deadline of Monday 3rd March 2025.

WombatChocolate · 20/01/2025 14:42

I don’t think was an exploding offer at all.

The school encourages those who are able to give an earlier answer. It is not unreasonable.

If applicants are still waiting to hear from other places or undecided, they can take their time until the deadline. If they already know their answer, it is not unreasonable to be asked to give it, and to show some understanding that other families are waiting to hear and knowing earlier helps both the school and other families.

There is no indication of an exploding offer.

LIZS · 20/01/2025 14:45

So op may not have been put under pressure after all. How odd!

ICouldBeVioletSky · 20/01/2025 15:14

Slight derail, but I’m surprised that the ISC have allowed an acceptance deadline of midday on 3 March. National Offer Day for state secondaries is 3 March - last year I think our LA sent out offers around 10am so it doesn’t give parents long to weigh up their options and potentially get their acceptance and holding deposit in, even assuming there are no delays!

The independents we’ve looked at/applied to have an acceptance deadline of Weds 3 March which seems more reasonable.

AndreaKnowsBest · 20/01/2025 15:35

Sorry, that statement is a bit pants. Someone knows they've made a boo boo here. St Cats don't normally go near MN.

No skin in the game at all, thank goodness, mine are all too old for these shenanigans, but:

"I would therefore be very grateful to receive your written acceptance of this award by Monday 3rd February 2025 or earlier"

Is clearly very confusing to anyone who's new at this game!

ICouldBeVioletSky · 20/01/2025 15:44

I thought at first the St Cats statement was going to be defensive but to be fair they are then fairly apologetic (or at least contrite).

I don’t even think it was ambiguous:

May I ask you to respond now to this offer ahead of the usual agreed final date for the acceptance of a place if you possibly can.”

They explain why they are asking this which seems perfectly reasonable, but if anyone did find it ambiguous parents are then invited to contact the school with any questions.

All seemed pretty clear to me 🤷‍♀️

JJMilford · 20/01/2025 16:03

I'm sorry my initial issue wasn't with their offers process, it was specifically on the topic of scholarships.

When a statement says

May I ask you to respond now to this offer ahead of the usual agreed final date for the acceptance of a place if you possibly can..

One feels under pressure to respond, but there is a mixed message that one can still take their time... but then they go on to say

I would therefore be very grateful to receive your written acceptance of this award by Monday 3rd February 2025 or earlier.

Which in my mind is a deadline. How can there be any date after the 3rd Feb, when they asking for confirmation of scholarship acceptance before or by 3rd Feb (not after, but before, or, on).

Anyone who has any grasp of the English language can see, therefore, that the 3rd of Feb is a deadline. Thus the scholarship offer is implied to expire before the March main date.

Whether this is meant to have been the case or a simple failure in letter writing, it is naughty and applies pressure and confusion. I certainly was confused and pressures by this date.

The school clearly feel they need to settle the issue, so they clearly see it too now... or have been caught out. I am, however, feeling happier about StCats now theyvahve clearly out their hands up and admitted fault.

OP posts:
LIZS · 20/01/2025 16:13

You said they had been bothering you since the written offer, which they deny.