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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

OP posts:
Alexandra2001 · 05/11/2024 07:44

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 06:14

Student debt now does not affect credit rating but it does affect mortgage affordability assessment. Less take home pay translates to less ability to raise a bigger mortgage because you obviously can’t repay as much. Couple that with future nursery fees, this debt will trap the next generation even more. And yes it’s not the uni fees per se, it’s interest on the entire loan at the moment that is the problem.

So if you are properly rich your kids need no loan at all as many would pay upfront or pay off straight after uni (having invested in high yield interest in this climate during the uni years). If like me, you don’t want them to have debt but you are expected to massively top up maintenance and have 4 DC then other countries could be a better option. If they can work there due to visa requirements.
I would move to Scotland and work there for a few years if I had to. For several DC it might make have made sense.

Pretending these loans growing to 80k plus for many are not an issue is disingenuous. It would have put me off studying entirely.

I don't recall such outrage when Sunak lowered the thresholds, then froze them AND increased interest rates, these changes really did increase the monthly amounts paid and have negatively affected affordability.

there is an awful lot of faux anger in many posts.

Plus how do we keep Uni's viable? higher taxes? which ones?

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 07:57

There was loads of outrage re Plan 5 and extortionate interest rates. We were expecting Labour to sort that out! Cost of living and rents and interest rates have increased massively, Labour are doing nothing zero zilch to help students and families. If you are middle class in this country now and don’t work in the state sector you are screwed.

Fightingwithrhinos · 05/11/2024 07:57

Blankscreen · 05/11/2024 00:01

I wonder how long until VAT is added to uni fees.

I remember the justification for uni fees being introduced in the first place.

Politicians will spin the rhetoric to what ever suits.

I said this as soon as VAT on private education was announced. It’s alarming how many people do not understand how VAT works. As with all of these policies it will end up adversely affecting the people that need the money most.

Ubertomusic · 05/11/2024 08:30

Bluefields96 · 05/11/2024 07:40

Those recommending University courses in mainland Europe should note that the University experience in eg Germany and the Netherlands is totally different to that in the UK.
There is little or no pastoral care, most courses accept all who apply with minimum grades and as a result there is a huge failure/drop out/repeat a year rate. Twenty one year olds graduating with a BA are few and far between.

In the cities, there is a much higher proportion of students living at home with parents and relying on friendships made at school. Even if the course is taught in English, social life is in the native language so requires a high degree of fluency. Students can live in foreign student bubbles but the high failure/drop out rates rates mean that friendships made in year one rarely survive until the end. You can end up with no mates by Year 3. I know of several UK students who have transferred back to UK universities as a result.

Despite the above, the low fees and overseas experience may be a reasonable option when compared with lower ranking UK universities. But courses at higher ranked UK universities are popular with those Northern European students who can afford them because they are rightly perceived as representing good value for money. Those are fewer post Brexit and that is why most Northern European governments are pushing hard for European students to pay UK rather than overseas student fees.

And for those claiming that life in Germany, Netherlands etc is all rosy - look at the basic tax rates, the housing crises, the failing governments, social problems and the growth outlook. The grass on the other side of the fence is not always greener.

look at the basic tax rates, the housing crises, the failing governments, social problems and the growth outlook

Sounds like the UK to me.

Who claimed that life is rosy in Europe? But despite things not being rosy, they still don't fleece their youth for education. Strange people 🤷‍♀️

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 08:37

I want my DC to try other options to expand their horizon and are not trapped here. Studying abroad builds resilience and flexibility and will give them the courage to choose the best country to live and work in for their own personal circumstances. They may come back or they may not. Given the toxic political culture here, I feel obliged now to give them those options and learn another language fluently. If you want to be in tech for example Switzerland is an excellent option or engineering cars/alternative forms of energy in Germany.
Depends on what they want to do. If they want to study Classics then the U.K. would be good and if they want to become an academic afterwards, I would be suggesting the US. I am not going to limit their options to one country. The world is their oyster and if they aren’t valued here but are elsewhere, that is where they are going.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 09:10

https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility/eligibility

Yet Sir Keir is still dragging his feet with the EU?! Ridiculous behaviour from Labour, just as bad as the Tories! If not worse.
They clearly want to trap our own youth here because it is shite for them and they must know it.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 05/11/2024 09:32

Oldsu · 05/11/2024 00:09

My DS is a plumber owns his own company
My Nieces and Nephews
An Aircraft Mechanic
Catering Manager
Housing Officer
And the youngest is in the RAF just promoted to Corporal and has just spent 6 months in the Falkland Islands servicing Land Rovers
None of these are dead end jobs, all are well paid

I wish DD fancied being a train driver!

Friend of mine does that - 4 day week, free travel, shifts to suit, great holiday allowance and 75k a year. He's just applied for Eurostar which is just under 100k for an even better package - but you need to also speak French.

Has masses of time to pursue his other interests, it's not a job you have to take home with you.

OP posts:
TheCompactPussycat · 05/11/2024 09:59

Fightingwithrhinos · 05/11/2024 07:57

I said this as soon as VAT on private education was announced. It’s alarming how many people do not understand how VAT works. As with all of these policies it will end up adversely affecting the people that need the money most.

Not as alarming as the number of people who don't understand how student finance works. There is no incentive for the government to introduce VAT on university fees since the government effectively pay university fees themselves. Adding VAT would only really affect overseas students and those from families already wealthy enough to pay home fees up front.
The current rise in university fees is basically the government giving (a tiny bit) more money to universities for each home student, since most students won't pay anything more than they already would have.

TheCompactPussycat · 05/11/2024 10:02

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 05/11/2024 09:32

I wish DD fancied being a train driver!

Friend of mine does that - 4 day week, free travel, shifts to suit, great holiday allowance and 75k a year. He's just applied for Eurostar which is just under 100k for an even better package - but you need to also speak French.

Has masses of time to pursue his other interests, it's not a job you have to take home with you.

Has masses of time to pursue his other interests, it's not a job you have to take home with you.

It most certainly is a job that you will take home with you and which you will have to live with for ever more as soon as someone decides to end their life in front of your train. As has happened to my BIL twice.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:16

“Adding VAT would only really affect overseas students and those from families already wealthy enough to pay home fees up front.”

Yes sure, because if overseas students are even less likely to come our unis will do so well, won’t they. And all people with enough cash to upsticks will leave too, it is going to be absolutely great for the rest of us staying back and supporting the sinking ship.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:18

“Friend of mine does that - 4 day week, free travel, shifts to suit, great holiday allowance and 75k a year. He's just applied for Eurostar which is just under 100k for an even better package - but you need to also speak French.“

Hehe, I also have a friend who has just applied for Eurostar. I guess free holidays to Paris/Brussels for the whole family is a good incentive.

TheCompactPussycat · 05/11/2024 10:30

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:16

“Adding VAT would only really affect overseas students and those from families already wealthy enough to pay home fees up front.”

Yes sure, because if overseas students are even less likely to come our unis will do so well, won’t they. And all people with enough cash to upsticks will leave too, it is going to be absolutely great for the rest of us staying back and supporting the sinking ship.

So, as I said, there is little incentive for the government to add VAT to university fees.
For the vast majority of students, it will simply be another expense for the government to bear, and for the wealthier or overseas students it will simply drive them away.
You've just proved my point nicely. It isn't going to happen.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:36

I never said they would get away with VAT on uni education. However, I would not be surprised if they target private healthcare in due course.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:38

They won’t charge unis VAT because that would lead to them losing the clutch they currently have over unis. They should not be controlling unis full stop. Part of the problem is the half way house of not a proper private entity but publicly funded and being told what to do by the Government.

twistyizzy · 05/11/2024 10:40

But interestingly BP has set age limit for VAT to 19 so the potential is there for universities to get caught up

twistyizzy · 05/11/2024 10:41

Alexandra2001 · 05/11/2024 07:44

I don't recall such outrage when Sunak lowered the thresholds, then froze them AND increased interest rates, these changes really did increase the monthly amounts paid and have negatively affected affordability.

there is an awful lot of faux anger in many posts.

Plus how do we keep Uni's viable? higher taxes? which ones?

Your words are very reminiscent of BP speech about fees.....

Tiredalwaystired · 05/11/2024 10:49

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:36

I never said they would get away with VAT on uni education. However, I would not be surprised if they target private healthcare in due course.

They probably should. And redirect the additional money to the NHS

I say this as someone who has had to go private recently.

TheCompactPussycat · 05/11/2024 10:50

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:36

I never said they would get away with VAT on uni education. However, I would not be surprised if they target private healthcare in due course.

I never said they would get away with VAT on uni education.
No, you didn't. I replied to a poster who seemed to think that it was the natural progression after VAT on private education explaining why it wasn't and you replied to my post illustrating my point perfectly.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:59

“They probably should. And redirect the additional money to the NHS
I say this as someone who has had to go private recently.”

I doubt penalising people voluntarily paying up will lead to extra money for public services. I believe the opposite to be the case - be it in education or health. Plenty of research out there to show that those with means and education who know how to talk the talk get better access to public services in the first place. Incentivising them to use public services is not a good way to raise funds.

StandingSideBySide · 05/11/2024 11:11

TheCompactPussycat · 05/11/2024 09:59

Not as alarming as the number of people who don't understand how student finance works. There is no incentive for the government to introduce VAT on university fees since the government effectively pay university fees themselves. Adding VAT would only really affect overseas students and those from families already wealthy enough to pay home fees up front.
The current rise in university fees is basically the government giving (a tiny bit) more money to universities for each home student, since most students won't pay anything more than they already would have.

And pensioners and older adults not going back to work deciding to do a degree won’t pay a penny back at all!

DanielaDressen · 05/11/2024 11:15

I don't think adding VAT would help? It goes to the govt not the universities, it's the universities which need the money to stay afloat. The govt will want to avoid the sector collapsing and know that any extra revenue needs to be seen by the HEI, not just a tax which goes into the govt coffers.

piscofrisco · 05/11/2024 11:44

By £285 a year. Which doesn't seem unreasonable to me in the current climate and they having not risen for the preceding 8 years.

Tiredalwaystired · 05/11/2024 12:02

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 10:59

“They probably should. And redirect the additional money to the NHS
I say this as someone who has had to go private recently.”

I doubt penalising people voluntarily paying up will lead to extra money for public services. I believe the opposite to be the case - be it in education or health. Plenty of research out there to show that those with means and education who know how to talk the talk get better access to public services in the first place. Incentivising them to use public services is not a good way to raise funds.

Can I ask you a question that is genuine and not meant to be goady?

As you have access to international passports and are so down on absolutely everything this country offers, what’s keeping you here? You’re encouraging your kids to leave, so why don’t you join them? You seem so entirely dissatisfied with everything.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 12:11

Well @Tiredalwaystired - I am British, born British and only acquired the other passports later. My entire family has contributed substantially to this country for many centuries. I have contributed substantially to taxes. So no, I am staying right here and exercising my right to free speech. However, for my own children I will absolutely make sure their options remain as wide open as possible.

Tiredalwaystired · 05/11/2024 12:14

But you seem to think that your taxes dont make a difference. And won’t make a difference in the future. So why self flagellate if you hate it all so much and don’t believe it will improve. Isnt life too short?