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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

OP posts:
Ubertomusic · 04/11/2024 21:02

TheGoldenGate · 04/11/2024 18:51

How is that possible? All countries in EU from 2026 require not only citizenship of a country but also proof of residence there( tax) to study for free

Edited

Care to share a link?

Ubertomusic · 04/11/2024 21:08

Araminta1003 · 04/11/2024 20:57

“I can only hope EU unis won't charge us much more in a few years time... Germany is still being nice with us, but their problems are mounting too so probably won't be that generous...”

I think the Germans are smarter than that. They will be more than happy to poach the very young and very talented people from the UK and invest in them via uni fees. It is a no brainer really.

I guess it will depend on the state of their economy, but fingers crossed...
Both my DC learn German and French specifically to be able to study abroad. It has been obvious for a long time where the country is going education wise...

Jk987 · 04/11/2024 21:09

Why would an 18 year old want to get into tens of thousands worth of debt when they can work their way up in industry and make money from the get go?

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 21:21

Alexandra2001 · 04/11/2024 18:23

Where would you have got the money from to keep Uni's viable?

The state of their finances, isn't down to Labours 4 months in power but the Tories 14 years...

They had sight of the finances before they came to power. They were freely available for Labour to look at in the lead up to the GE. All this crsp from Reeves that she only became aware of the black hole in finances once she took office is a red herring to justify her going hard line. I would rather the junior doctors got 11% instead of 22, and allowed uni fees to remain as they were. She's promised public sector workers a salary boost so has to fund that I guess.

ru53 · 04/11/2024 21:33

Jk987 · 04/11/2024 21:09

Why would an 18 year old want to get into tens of thousands worth of debt when they can work their way up in industry and make money from the get go?

Can you tell us about these industries where you can work your way up to a great career and not just get boxed into a dead end job? I’m asking genuinely as I’m in a profession where a post graduate degree is bare minimum requirement. I do worry for my daughter as the route I and DH took (work hard at school and go to uni) doesn’t make as much financial sense even for us let alone her.

DanielaDressen · 04/11/2024 21:46

Tiredalwaystired · 04/11/2024 18:47

Oh yes. I’ll just give my kids their European passport and they can go do that.

Well obviously if you don’t have an EU passport you can’t but the poster I was replying to did mention having a legacy passport. Plenty of people will have them.

Vettrianofan · 04/11/2024 21:49

There are many routes to success, university is only one of them.

TheCompactPussycat · 04/11/2024 21:55

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 21:21

They had sight of the finances before they came to power. They were freely available for Labour to look at in the lead up to the GE. All this crsp from Reeves that she only became aware of the black hole in finances once she took office is a red herring to justify her going hard line. I would rather the junior doctors got 11% instead of 22, and allowed uni fees to remain as they were. She's promised public sector workers a salary boost so has to fund that I guess.

I would rather the junior doctors got 11% instead of 22, and allowed uni fees to remain as they were.
This doesn't make any sense. Raising tuition fees isn't raising any finances for the government. Quite the opposite - it's basically the government giving more funds to the universities. The government aren't paying for public sector workers pay increases by increasing tuition fees.

Alexandra2001 · 04/11/2024 22:07

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 21:21

They had sight of the finances before they came to power. They were freely available for Labour to look at in the lead up to the GE. All this crsp from Reeves that she only became aware of the black hole in finances once she took office is a red herring to justify her going hard line. I would rather the junior doctors got 11% instead of 22, and allowed uni fees to remain as they were. She's promised public sector workers a salary boost so has to fund that I guess.

The Junior Docs strike cost the UK 3x what it did eventually cost to settle.

Money down the drain.

If we don't pay people competitive salaries, they will leave the NHS, costing the economy far more than if we paid.

Parents & Students are already looking at the EU, many of the very best the UK has will stay in Europe, making us less economically attractive.

The Black Hole was caused by the Tories, NOT Rachel Reeves but it falls on her to put it right.

& that means hard choices.

HarrisObviously · 04/11/2024 22:18

Araminta1003 · 04/11/2024 16:48

Look 9 per cent extra tax means you won’t get a mortgage! So no hope of getting on the housing ladder even for higher earners. Anyone considered that? How is the next generation going to have children?

Fees are going up by a very small amount per year <£300 and it hasn't risen for 8 years.
The extortionate interest rate charged is more of an issue.
I say that as DC1 graduated 5 years ago and her debt is £80k+. She did Pharmacy so it had to be a 4 years integrated masters. We paid her rent each year so it could have been nearer £100k. Her salary isn't great considering (NHS).

HarrisObviously · 04/11/2024 22:20

Araminta1003 · 04/11/2024 17:19

I have fully understood and don’t feel comfortable with my DCs being in so much debt. So uni in Europe it will be for us. For free. Maintenance they expect us to fund anyway.

Off you all go then.

boys3 · 04/11/2024 22:24

DanielaDressen · 04/11/2024 17:47

They need to increase the maintenance loan. A loan of £4600 for living costs when household parental income is 60k isn’t enough when rent can be £300 a week. 60k may well be a decent income but parents have their own Mortgages and bills, other kids, rising bills, falling wages, inflation…..and then have to find 12k a year or so for one child. God help you if you have two kids at uni!

I’d argue more fundamentally the household income thresholds need to be looked at. The 25k or lower which gets the max maintenance loan (England) would be more like £35k or so if inflation adjusted and the £62k (?) above which only the min loan is available more around the £90k mark. Moving those thresholds would be a significant benefit.

Fightingwithrhinos · 04/11/2024 22:43

titchy · 04/11/2024 18:30

And where do you suppose parents get the money upfront from to fund fees and maintenance - no loans for EU study (RoI excepted).

There are no loans available to English students applying to study in the RoI. Tuition fees have just been reduced to €2000 pa though. DD is at Trinity College Dublin and whilst accommodation is scarce (and expensive) general student expenses are way less than the UK - public transport/societies/ etc.

Tiredalwaystired · 04/11/2024 23:08

Jk987 · 04/11/2024 21:09

Why would an 18 year old want to get into tens of thousands worth of debt when they can work their way up in industry and make money from the get go?

Because unbelievably for some they wish to study for the love of a subject and it isnt about getting rich.

My DD recognises her chosen passion is never going to earn her Uber bucks but there’s nothing she wants to spend her life doing more. Since buying a house is probably going to be out of reach for her anyway I think she had a point.

Tiredalwaystired · 04/11/2024 23:11

Alexandra2001 · 04/11/2024 22:07

The Junior Docs strike cost the UK 3x what it did eventually cost to settle.

Money down the drain.

If we don't pay people competitive salaries, they will leave the NHS, costing the economy far more than if we paid.

Parents & Students are already looking at the EU, many of the very best the UK has will stay in Europe, making us less economically attractive.

The Black Hole was caused by the Tories, NOT Rachel Reeves but it falls on her to put it right.

& that means hard choices.

Not to mention that junior doctors pay tax too - so there’s a percentage of that headline figures that boomerangs right back into the coffers.

ThePure · 04/11/2024 23:14

Araminta1003 · 04/11/2024 16:20

“Martin Lewis has just released some info on this on his Facebook channel just to calm any hysteria. Only those that pay it all back will be affected. Otherwise there is no change to students - it’s 9% of your salary over the threshold for 40 years regardless. He pointed out that the previous governments policy of moving from 30 to 40 years for repayment was much more impactful.”

Why would I want my DC to pay 49% tax or even 54% if they can go study elsewhere for free and pay less tax and have a better quality of life? So that they can tick boxes. Taxes are already too high for the higher earners in this country. Do they think people will just sign up to this? Won’t people either just pay upfront if they can for their DC or send them elsewhere if they have any options at all? We are lucky to have 3 different nationalities for DC and could potentially get a 4th. Where we live in London a lot of our friends’ DC are just like that. People are not as trapped here as they won’t us to believe.

You must live in La La land if you think most people have these choices

Pay upfront! Most people struggle to pay their parental contribution to maintenance it is especially with more than one child.

What European countries just let uncle Tom Cobley and all come there and study for free?? Most people do not conveniently have dual nationality of another country

Whatever world you are living in it's not one I am familiar with.

ThePure · 04/11/2024 23:31

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 17:59

How Starmer is behaving since getting into power really shows people should always take politicians manifestos, leading up to elections, with a pinch of salt. They can always go back with ‘but we weren’t aware of what we were left with following the last government’. They really are just liars and manipulators, yet people still take what they say as gospel.

As Ian Hislop said on HIGNFY 'Labour government redistributes wealth. What a huge surprise'

I am a lifelong Labour supporter and I am very happy and agree with pretty much everything they have done so far including this on uni fees. The universities need more money and this will have very little actual impact on students. Student loan debt doesn't affect credit rating or mortgage affordability and is basically a graduate tax in all but name. You don't even need to pay it if you don't earn enough. I really can't see the problem apart from that maybe it didn't go far enough.

The junior Dr strike was disabling the NHS and costing far more than the settlement. It was eminently sensible to agree a settlement asap. It was completely stupid and counterproductive for the Tories to let it drag on as it did.

dottiehens · 04/11/2024 23:52

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 17:59

How Starmer is behaving since getting into power really shows people should always take politicians manifestos, leading up to elections, with a pinch of salt. They can always go back with ‘but we weren’t aware of what we were left with following the last government’. They really are just liars and manipulators, yet people still take what they say as gospel.

I know I pity people who still believes in politicians. I tend trust to trust more the ones that are straight assholes than wolves in sheep clothes like KS. At least you know where you stand .
Do not get me started about trusting them with everything like education, health and economy? Very risky.

Blankscreen · 05/11/2024 00:01

I wonder how long until VAT is added to uni fees.

I remember the justification for uni fees being introduced in the first place.

Politicians will spin the rhetoric to what ever suits.

Oldsu · 05/11/2024 00:09

ru53 · 04/11/2024 21:33

Can you tell us about these industries where you can work your way up to a great career and not just get boxed into a dead end job? I’m asking genuinely as I’m in a profession where a post graduate degree is bare minimum requirement. I do worry for my daughter as the route I and DH took (work hard at school and go to uni) doesn’t make as much financial sense even for us let alone her.

My DS is a plumber owns his own company
My Nieces and Nephews
An Aircraft Mechanic
Catering Manager
Housing Officer
And the youngest is in the RAF just promoted to Corporal and has just spent 6 months in the Falkland Islands servicing Land Rovers
None of these are dead end jobs, all are well paid

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 06:14

Student debt now does not affect credit rating but it does affect mortgage affordability assessment. Less take home pay translates to less ability to raise a bigger mortgage because you obviously can’t repay as much. Couple that with future nursery fees, this debt will trap the next generation even more. And yes it’s not the uni fees per se, it’s interest on the entire loan at the moment that is the problem.

So if you are properly rich your kids need no loan at all as many would pay upfront or pay off straight after uni (having invested in high yield interest in this climate during the uni years). If like me, you don’t want them to have debt but you are expected to massively top up maintenance and have 4 DC then other countries could be a better option. If they can work there due to visa requirements.
I would move to Scotland and work there for a few years if I had to. For several DC it might make have made sense.

Pretending these loans growing to 80k plus for many are not an issue is disingenuous. It would have put me off studying entirely.

Araminta1003 · 05/11/2024 06:42

“I know I pity people who still believes in politicians. I tend trust to trust more the ones that are straight assholes than wolves in sheep clothes like KS. At least you know where you stand .
Do not get me started about trusting them with everything like education, health and economy? Very risky.”

@dottiehens - I have come to realise that in other civilised countries politicians do not USE education and health as political footballs to the same extent as they do here. It is pretty much atypical. Health is becoming more of a political urgency in some places due to an ageing population/increasing chronic ill health for many and increasing & expensive health care options, but education is not made to be so political in many other European countries. They just do not have as many problems in that regard as we do.

Livelovebehappy · 05/11/2024 07:34

Alexandra2001 · 04/11/2024 22:07

The Junior Docs strike cost the UK 3x what it did eventually cost to settle.

Money down the drain.

If we don't pay people competitive salaries, they will leave the NHS, costing the economy far more than if we paid.

Parents & Students are already looking at the EU, many of the very best the UK has will stay in Europe, making us less economically attractive.

The Black Hole was caused by the Tories, NOT Rachel Reeves but it falls on her to put it right.

& that means hard choices.

And I’ll wait to see if the NHS improves, even slightly, following the increase. I suspect not.

Bluefields96 · 05/11/2024 07:40

Those recommending University courses in mainland Europe should note that the University experience in eg Germany and the Netherlands is totally different to that in the UK.
There is little or no pastoral care, most courses accept all who apply with minimum grades and as a result there is a huge failure/drop out/repeat a year rate. Twenty one year olds graduating with a BA are few and far between.

In the cities, there is a much higher proportion of students living at home with parents and relying on friendships made at school. Even if the course is taught in English, social life is in the native language so requires a high degree of fluency. Students can live in foreign student bubbles but the high failure/drop out rates rates mean that friendships made in year one rarely survive until the end. You can end up with no mates by Year 3. I know of several UK students who have transferred back to UK universities as a result.

Despite the above, the low fees and overseas experience may be a reasonable option when compared with lower ranking UK universities. But courses at higher ranked UK universities are popular with those Northern European students who can afford them because they are rightly perceived as representing good value for money. Those are fewer post Brexit and that is why most Northern European governments are pushing hard for European students to pay UK rather than overseas student fees.

And for those claiming that life in Germany, Netherlands etc is all rosy - look at the basic tax rates, the housing crises, the failing governments, social problems and the growth outlook. The grass on the other side of the fence is not always greener.