How smart do you need to be to pass 11+

[Mumofgirls12341]

My 9 year old is in year 5 and preparing for 11+ and I was just wondering how smart does a child actually need to be in order to secure a place? We’re aiming at London super selectives Latymer, HBS and Woodford County Girls School.

DD has always been exceeding/greater depth since reception but I wouldn’t say she is exceptionally bright - does she have a decent shot? I have heard of people saying it’s almost impossible to get into these schools so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

With or without tutoring? And more importantly, if you weren’t tutored was that the norm or were you an outlier?

I’m sure you weren’t; the person I was responding to was, though, and it’s something that crops up over quite a few threads, in some people’s cases in very rude terms (the above poster wasn’t rude) and these are normally people who have no experience of these types of schools from any angle!

We did some practice tests in school- all the kids who wanted to take it did it. We did them under exam conditions, like a mock exam.
Honestly I don’t know whether the majority of people were tutored or not.
A friend was borderline so her schoolwork was requested and she was given a place at the same grammar as me. Again, I don’t remember if she was tutored or not but she did the practice tests.

That’s a really important thing to know though in order to compare the nineties to now. As I said up thread I was also entered for the 11+ and passed. But outside of school, where I had completed the same practice papers every other last child took, there was no such things as tutoring for it.

If any one child had been tutored, even with past papers at home (not a thing) they’d have had an automatic advantage. They might not have got in but they would still have had a head start on every other entrant

Going on our experience this year (DS missed out by just a few marks, despite tutoring and lots of practice), they need to be the kind of child who is classed as ‘gifted’ and also very self-motivated. DS is working at greater depth, one of the top few in his class in test scores etc, but has always been pretty laid back and honestly all of the motivation to do the 11-plus came from me. The two in his class who did get high test scores were the ones who were reading chapter books in year 1, entered and won the science project competition etc every year, were very driven and competitive high achievers. Part of me regrets putting him through it, but on the other hand the tutoring has been fantastic for him and has really supported his English and maths.

My Dc sat the Redbridge (Woodford county) exam a couple of years ago. They passed well but ultimately we went private.

Looking at the kids I know who passed and didn’t you do need to be well prepared and used to working at time pressure. But equally you do still need to be pretty smart to be able to work that quickly and to have a large vocab to pull on.

Important to note on Redbridge is that if your child gets pupil premium you can get in with a much lower score. I am assuming you are in the overlap area between Latymer and Redbridge where eligible for both?

I passed the 11plus in the 90s too, no prep. My DD's 11plus papers were an entirely different kettle of fish than the one I sat.

Full of trick questions, as many questions as possible crammed in so you have to answer them quickly, massively decontextualised questions...

I wouldn't be able to pass the 11plus she sat. I know it!

I respect your opinion but I personally have a different opinion.
The questions are based on:

1. knowledge
2. speed
3. technique

No 3. The tests are designed with questions specifically made to trick students with “less” ability. The seemingly tricky questions are also based on a range patterns. The preparation to 11+ is including knowledge, speed and recognising those patterns.

The kids may have knowledge but are slower than the benchmark is expecting or the 11+ preparation doesn't include a review of all patterns of questions.

Maybe only in essay there is some scope for creativity. Otherwise, not really.

I failed the 11+. I went on to achieve GCSEs and A levels all grade A, a diploma, a degree and a post-grad in education.

It’s a flawed test.

Firstly a private 1-1 would be far better so her prep can be personalised. Secondly she needs to be scoring consistently in the mid to high 90%s to stand any sort of chance.

@3rdLucky I wrote about essay/ written piece above.

There is zero creativity in Reading Comprehension as it is multiple choice. The answers are based on " tricking patterns" and as long as an intelligent kid reads the story, and understand the " traps" types in the choices and reads, answers fairly fast then it is not a problem.

I have taken in my life quite a lot of tests in UK and US. 11+ is similar , at a level that can be expected from 11 years olds.

How do you know your son scored top 2% in the country for SATs? That level of scrutiny scoring is not released.

@Mumofgirls12341 I have a DC at Latymer. They don't do the 11+ exactly but have their own papers. The reading comprehension and creative writing are quite different from the 11+. And there's no NVR. If you're going to a general 11+ class, you need to ensure they're doing some specific Latymer practice papers. Mine did ok in Maths but actually her score went up after they marked the writing, so that may have made the difference between her getting in or not.

Mine was at the top of her class pretty much throughout primary. She didn't do huge amounts of tutoring - started in the summer term of Y5 - but didn't get in outright and got in off the waiting list. Some of it may be just tuition but her peers seem like a pretty clever bunch. I agree with the pp who said smart + tuition. Also agre with those saying the system is not fair. Latymer was originally set up as a school for poor children and now it is very middle class.

Final point - it is not 90% Asian but pretty mixed ethnically, at a guess about 50:50 white and other ethnicities.

What does it mean in 2 perc? Many kids have 120 that is max amount of points.

How much tuition did you do? We are doing a bit atm, which will ramp up after January. DD is smart, reads A LOT but just not sure how much work we need to do outside of tuition. We are going for Guildford High, St Cat’s a d maybe Tormead. Tutor adviced to apply for at least 3 schools.

@SchoolDilemma17 we did a group session once a week from the start of year 5.

@Mumofgirls12341 it's not just smart. It's about practice, practice and more practice to get the speed up